Prius vs. Escape - Page 4 - GreenHybrid

tcampb01 · #31 (**permalink**) 08-31-2007, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prada

I think the comparison was the Escape to the Highlander not the Escape to the Prius.

My problem with Escape was that it had a poor crash test rating vs. the Prius, safety first, saving oil and environment won't pay medical bills.

At this point, I'm thinking Jetta Diesel Sportwagen at 40/60mpg which will be 10% more fuel efficient than Prius, close to 50% more fuel efficient than Escape.

I'd like AWD but figure traction control, stability control and Nokian snows will work just fine.

Audi Diesels coming out with Jetta's will likely beat Escape fuel efficiency by 10% and provide AWD.

I don't know how the highlander does on cargo space -- obviously the difference between Prius and FEH is huge (he discussed those two models on his original post which I was I replied such as I did).

The Highlander doesn't do as well on fuel economy as the Escape. A casual glance at the window sticker might suggest they are about the same, but the Highlander is an '07 model year and the Escape is an '08 model year. The fuel economy standards changed and the '08 has to reflect new rules, whereas the Highlander gets to reflect old rules. Based the members submitted tanks - folks are seeing between 9-18% better fuel economy on the FEH. I looked at the Highlander Hybrid back when I was buying my Prius (the dealer didn't have any Priuses and was hoping to push me into a HiHy) and was not impressed.

But I see in the crash ratings that you are comparing the Prius (a midsize car) to the Escape (an SUV), and the two just don't compare. While the Prius may be good "for a car", it's not an SUV. I've watched those tests being conducted and spent about a year working in "crash-worthiness systems" engineering for a major auto-maker. The barriers are designed so that the car will impact in nicely designed areas which are uniform for the cars being tested but reflect quite a limited number of situations and are FAR from comprehensive when it comes to real-world scenarios. E.g. if a Prius rear ends a large truck, it'll slide under the rear bumper and the driver of the Prius is in a lot of trouble. The crash tests do NOT reflect this sort of scenario.

It's been a LONG time since the days of Ralph Nader and the Corvair -- I don't think any modern car is genuinely a safety hazzard. The safety standards are all SIGNIFICANTLY higher than they were back in the 60's with every car having 3-pt safety belts for all passengers (front and back), airbags mandatory for all front-seat occupants, etc. Currently the best thing you can do to improve safety while driving is to actually pay attention while driving.

If you really want to go all out on the safety thing, you should probably be driving a GM because just about all models come standard with the OnStar system that automatically calls 911 if the airbag deploys and help will be dispatched even if you are unconcious and can't call for it, and also has a panic button you can press if you are driving down the road and suddenly fear you might be having a heart-attack -- of course the fuel economy is deplorable. It's just a matter of how far do you really want to take this safety angle?

Regards,
Tim

Tideland Prius · #32 (**permalink**) 08-31-2007, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcampb01

I normally like auto-dimming mirrors -- but the Prius has a cross-bar on the back-hatch (to which the spoiler and 'cyclops' light is mounted) and this casts a shadow on the mirror so that the mirror isn't really aware of the bright headlights behind me. I really wish I just had a manual flip-level to dim the mirror. Toyota needs to ditch it or find a way to mount the light sensor in a spot that isn't blocked by the shadow of the back hatch.

Try rotating the mirror upside down. I did that and it functioned perfectly! Now it acts just like our Camry's auto-dimming mirror. Just be careful of the wires when rotating.

Prada · #33 (**permalink**) 09-04-2007, 10:10 AM

"But I see in the crash ratings that you are comparing the Prius (a midsize car) to the Escape (an SUV), and the two just don't compare. "

Actually they do, both right around 3,000 lbs, its all about weight. Prius 2975 and Escape 3500. Not sure how much difference 500 lbs would make a in the head on crash. Would Escape weight bring it up to the Prius' better crash ratings? A wash?

Audi AWD Diesels are probably going be safer and get better mpg than Escape for those who want AWD and highest mileage.

I still think the VW Diesel Sportwagen with the 40/60 mpg is going to be my next car.

Be interesting to see what mpg the new Prius gets.

Sungod18 · #34 (**permalink**) 09-04-2007, 11:59 AM

If there is a new Prius.

Unless tax laws change the Prius could have a disavantage by not falling into the rules for tax incentives on hybrids. Toyota might be better just keeping a base prius for another run, but moving into new models to keep hybrids worth buying over lower prices similar cars.

bwilson4web · #35 (**permalink**) 09-05-2007, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sungod18

If there is a new Prius.

Unless tax laws change the Prius could have a disavantage by not falling into the rules for tax incentives on hybrids. Toyota might be better just keeping a base prius for another run, but moving into new models to keep hybrids worth buying over lower prices similar cars.

I don't follow it closely but my understanding is all Federal tax credits for Toyota hybrids end this month. There may be some state tax benefits but I think Toyota hybrids will have no further tax breaks after September 30.

Bob Wilson

Sungod18 · #36 (**permalink**) 09-05-2007, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwilson4web

I don't follow it closely but my understanding is all Federal tax credits for Toyota hybrids end this month. There may be some state tax benefits but I think Toyota hybrids will have no further tax breaks after September 30.

Bob Wilson

Looked it up and your correct for sept. 30th date.

Seems pretty odd Toyota has several models due for revamping but they hold off. Waiting out the release of the Volt to see if it catches? Then quickly offer their own version using existing plans for Prius/Corolla designs?

abowles · #37 (**permalink**) 09-10-2007, 02:40 PM

I will be very surprised if VW sells any car in America that gets better mileage than the Prius EPA rating. The current Jetta is looking at 31 MPG highway. A diesel Jetta configured generally the same in power and weight as a gas Jetta will do a lot better but probably be around 40 mpg highway, not 50 mpg, using the new EPA test methods. Of course that is still very good by today's standards. Also, a gas GTI is showing 32 highway using the new test method.

Billyk · #38 (**permalink**) 09-11-2007, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TragicSomething

Hi everyone,

(I'm 6'1", so most compact cars make me claustrophobic). However I'm also a little concerned about my household losing its only SUV - in other words, no four-wheel drive (our winters generate frequent snowy and icy conditions.)

You will be happy with a Ford Escape Hybrid. If you want AWD for winter conditions, the Escape will be much superior

to the Toyota Prius and Highlander Hybrid. This is due to the design of the vehicle that includes a center differential that splits torque between the front and rear wheels as need in any porportion. The Toyota Highlander Hybrid version relies on a second rear electric motor to power the rear wheels and there have be multiple reports from users of disappointment with this system in harsher conditions. Of course the Prius does not offer an AWD.

I have actually loaded 1000lbs of wood pellets (25- fourty pound bags) in my Escape and the suspension easily handled this load. Try this with the Prius

which will bottom out the suspension way before reaching this weight.

Yes you can add a trailer hitch to the Escape Hybrid without voiding the warranty and better yet, you can pull a small trailer with it as it is rated to handle a 1000lb load.

The Hybrid Escape is actually faster 0-60 mph than the 200hp V-6 Escape

and I have the data on this. If one drives this way all the time with Hybrid Escape, then the gas mileage suffer somewhat.

I am a 1/2 inch taller than you and there is more than 2 inches of space between my head and the roof.

As for gas mileage, the Escape will surprise you. Many reports of mid to upper 30's MPG in this vehicle. Of course the Prius will obtain higher MPG than the Escape.

centrider · #39 (**permalink**) 09-11-2007, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcampb01

I own both cars ('05 Ford Escae Hybrid with AWD and the '06 Prius).

The FEH definitely has more cargo space. With seats folded down in both cars the back of the FEH is a definitely longer. I have a board (just a cheap peice of 1x6 pine lumber) that has a fork mount bolted on it (basically one of these: http://www.performancebike.com/shop/...tegory_ID=4413 ). My bike will stand up in the back of my FEH.

In the Prius, not only can the bike not stand up but the cargo area is shorter so both front *and* back tires must be removed and the bike must lay down (taking up a lot more space).

The Prius does have a lot of cargo space with the seats folded down, but the back hatch slopes down so there's less space for tall items in the rear and I find a few items that just don't fit in the Prius.

If you need the cargo space often enough then probably the Escape Hybrid is the better option because if you run out of space inside the FEH you still have the option of using a hitch on the back or a roof rack. If you run out of cargo space on the Prius you're sort of out of luck with no 'plan B' for storage. BUT... the Prius blows away the Escape on fuel economy (my FEH seems to average about 32 MPG on a summertime tank (of course this is with AWD, the FWD version gets about 4 mpg better) while my Prius is averaging 52-55 mpg on a summertiime tank.

The Prius has a lot of other cool features (depending on how you equip it) like the bluetooth phone integration, a better nav computer, the keyless entry and starting system, etc.

I'm 6'4" and I do wish the Prius had a few more inches of front seat legroom, the Escape has more legroom.

As for the bikes... I ultimately put a receiver hitch installed and bought a bike rack that mounts to the hitch. This lets me carry my mountain bikes behind the car and still have a lot of interior space for other gear. Ford says the FEH can technically pull 1000 lbs but I dont think I would every pull a trailor with it. Ford recommends bike racks at the rear of the car and not up on the roof due to the enormous fuel economy loss caused by how poor the aerodynamics are when there's a bike rack on the roof (a 15% loss in fuel economy when driving at highway speeds just for having a rack with no bikes on it, and then a 25% loss in economy if you have bikes up there.... ouch!)

The price comparison depends on how you configure it. My Prius and my Ford Escape Hybrid were actually almost the same price (both were just shy of $30k).

As to how a full size bike goes into the Prius, one need only remove the front wheel. Believe me. I pack either my full size Giant, or CoMotion. Even as I write, my CoMotion is in the back of the Prius with its front wheel atop of the frame.

However, while doing my 4 month drive into the Midwest/Canada, we did take both wheels off along with the seat so that we could stand the bike against the right side of the Prius.

Taking the wheels off and the seat out and placing the frame into the bag and the wheels into their bags took around 10 minutes.

As a side comment: The dealer in Wausau, Wi wrote up our Prius as a station wagon.

Billyk · #40 (**permalink**) 09-11-2007, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prada

I think the comparison was the Escape to the Highlander not the Escape to the Prius.

At this point, I'm thinking Jetta Diesel Sportwagen at 40/60mpg which will be 10% more fuel efficient than Prius, close to 50% more fuel efficient than Escape.

Audi Diesels coming out with Jetta's will likely beat Escape fuel efficiency by 10% and provide AWD.

I actually followed a couple of VW forums for several months and eventually gave up on owning a VW because of the many horror stories I read in regards to reliability. I was stunned to read from several posters who stated VW would not honor their new car warranty. That was enough for me.

The Jetta Sportswagon at 40/60mpg? I remember reading on the forums earlier this spring that a clean burning TDI Jetta was expected for 2008 but when I search the VW website, it does not exist.