Currently, my type of "service" consists of:

1-2 mi trips, 70%
5-10 mi trips, city/hwy mix, 30%

Under my type of "service," is it true that there shouldn't be any significant fuel economy differences between the Prius and the HCH II? I ask as the HCH II will offer a $2k price advantage if, and when I come time to purchase.

In addition, under my type of service, is a 35-40 mpg average on a regular basis (and throughout the life of the vehicle) a realistic or unrealistic expectation? Over a 150k period, if I can average 35 mpg...I should be able to reduce fuel costs by about $3k compared to a gas-only Civic, which I'd assume obtains 25-27 mpg under my type of service.

Thanks in advance!

If there are just two daily trips of "1-2 mi trips," it is going to be difficult for either to really perform well. Your description sounds more urban biased, which tends to favor the Prius. If your profile were more +60 mph, I would recommend the Civic hybrid.

Something I usually don't forget to recommend is to see if you can rent each for a couple of days. There is at least one rental company that has hybrids in the NE and sometimes the dealer will have a rental. Try one for a couple of days and you'll quickly find the car that meets your needs.

Bob Wilson

Operation Iraqi Oil Freedom:

Automatic, stock, project car.

My other 1500 cc car:

Automatic, stock, backup car.
Free speech, dialog and knowledge thrives without the poison of SPAM.

My driving pattern is 90% in-city at 40 mph or less. So. . . I guess my next hybrid will be a Prius. I can't really gripe about my current hybrid though. It's a really reliable, perky car. Hopefully the Prius really will be engineered to be more efficient and less expensive in 2008.

Hi,
While the cheap gas and wider selection is available, prices should soften for all hybrids. For Toyota, the only risk is this patent suit.

BTW, there are other reasons for choosing another hybrid. For example, vehicle 'fit', visibility, style or cargo. There can be any one of a host of reasons and should extend beyond just Pricus vs. HCH. The real answer is to try each and so you can evaluate them against your requirements. If possible, rent each for a couple of days so you aren't rushed in your evaluation.

Bob Wilson

Operation Iraqi Oil Freedom:

Automatic, stock, project car.

My other 1500 cc car:

Automatic, stock, backup car.
Free speech, dialog and knowledge thrives without the poison of SPAM.

With the HCHII, after 150k miles or so, I'll come out "ahead" compared to the cost of a Civic EX. With the Prius, I'll barely break even if I can only obtain 35-40...

Still, I'm leaning toward the Prius at the moment given its size and cargo capability...

The Prius is better in the city, and the Civic is better on the highway. It sounds like you'll be in the city more, but whether or not the Prius would make up for the extra $2k over the Civic... I kinda doubt it. I think you'd be able to meet your MPG goals, I think it's good you're not setting you hopes too high.

I think that doing a weekend rental is a GREAT idea for getting to know a prospective car before purchase. Thanks for the idea!

Next December (when the car is paid off), I will probably rent a Fit and a Prius for a weekend each to see how well they perform. I like the size/appearance/price of the Fit, but I also like the technology/instrumentation/fuel economy of the Prius.

Well, I did some calculations:

Here are my figures:


Vehicle price (before TTL):

Civic EX, Automatic- $19k

Prius, $24k (after tax credit)

HCHII, $21k (after tax credit)

(Apparently, my earlier math was off...the difference was much more than that. )


Projected Fuel Economy:

Civic EX, 27 mpg

Prius, 38 mpg

HCHII, 38 mpg


Projected Fuel Costs @ $3.00/gal, over 150k miles:

Civic EX- $16,666.67

Prius- $11,842.11

HCH II- $11,842.11


Fuel Savings vs. Additional cost of vehicle:

Prius- $4824.56 vs. $5k

HCHII- $4824.56 vs. $3k

So, I'll questionably, barely break even with the Prius, but for sure with the HCHII with my "optimistic" fuel economy predictions.

I have a 2005 HCH and I do mix driving and still get 51 -52.5 MPG in the winter and 46-48 in the summer (because of the AC). I did my research before I purchased it and based on the database on GreenHybrid, didn't think the price difference was worth it for the Prius, plus the dealers here were charging 5,000-10,000 over the sticker price. My partner has a 2006 HCH and is currently getting 52.5 MPG and had a tank at 55 mpg. If you want a reliable car and don't want to pay the extra $, the Civic may be the better bet, but like others stated take a look at both and then decide. Both are great cars.

Bill

From the Valley of the Sun. -Phoenix, AZ

Just to add my two cents to your already good projections (the following applies only to 100% urban driving only):

1)- I believe it is not too hard to get 38 mpg out of an HCH-2 - just have to drive it poorly. I find it is a little more difficult to only get 38 mpg out of a Prius-2. In my experience the Prius will do a little better (over 150K urban miles) than the HCH-2. It may not be significant over small distances but definitely a measurable difference over the long run. So, I would adjust the figures to give a little edge to the Prius in your estimates.

2)- An HCH-2 on city duty offers more FE potential than what some of HCH-1 (CVT) owners have stated. Still for an average driver, the HCH-2 offers measurably lower FE potential in the city than the Prius.

Just to give you an idea of what I am talking about: I can get during summer months an FE of 51 mpg on my HCH-2. This is in 100% urban driving. Not too long ago, and under the same driving conditions with my HCH-1 (2004 CVT) I could not get over 45 mpg. Yet, our two company Prius get about the same mileage as my HCH-2. Maybe they would do better if it was not for them being driven by two different people.

However, which ever car you end up choosing, I know you'll be well served.

Cheers;

MSantos