Proof that Toyota are considering plug-in hybrids? - GreenHybrid

clett · #1 (**permalink**) 08-16-2005, 03:49 AM

Rumours are rife that Toyota has a secret "skunk-works" operation developing and testing plug-in hybrids for commercial release in the near future. However, they are still officially denying this.

But this website: http://tronweb.super-nova.co.jp/toyo...housepapi.html talks about Toyota's ideas for future houses (built by themselves). They said:

"the house can supply electricity to the battery packs of the vehicles via the stand in the middle of the garage. "

In the picture showing the stand, a Prius is parked next to it....

Does that mean Toyota are considering a plug-in Prius in the future?

Delta Flyer · #2 (**permalink**) 08-16-2005, 05:25 AM

I'd love to have my hybrid upgraded to a plug-in.

CNN's quick poll of Aug 15 asked: What kind of alternative power car would you get?"

hybrid
plug-in hybrid
EV
diesel
none - conventional gas

Only 11% chose plug-in hybrid - public probably is barely aware of what one is.

zadscmc · #3 (**permalink**) 08-16-2005, 05:29 AM

I can't understand the hype about plug-ins. Whilst you get better MPG not one person who rattles off the 100, 200, 250 numbers has stated what the required kwh is to fill the battery or incorporate that into the rating.

At .17/kwh, it could add up fast.

Delta Flyer · #4 (**permalink**) 08-16-2005, 05:56 AM

Very true zadscmc, but there are still some advantages:

Eventually the grid power could be non-fossil fuel
Even coal-powered grid power could be easier to clean-up - fewer smoke stacks
Reduces the need for using Middle East oil
Might ease the Ozone days in large cities

texashchman · #5 (**permalink**) 08-16-2005, 06:15 AM

I think most people still are on the "what does it cost", if it costs more money they won't buy it. We still have people buying large vehicles that don't use them for what they are designed for only because they got a F-150 cheaper than a Prius,Escape or Highlander. Most people might say yes we need to reduce middle east oil and or tail pipe emissions,but when it comes down to buying a new vehicle it's going to be cost!Power from coal is cheap,Nuclear is much cheaper and gas fired is way to high now. It would be interesting if they sold a plug in and a solar charger came with it. Naw costs to dang much.Kevin

zadscmc · #6 (**permalink**) 08-16-2005, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeltaFlyer

Only 11% chose plug-in hybrid - public probably is barely aware of what one is.

I know what a plug in hybrid is and would not have selected it. Don't assume 89 percent of the people who didn't choose it don't know what it is. That cannot be inferred from these data presented.

Delta Flyer · #7 (**permalink**) 08-16-2005, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zadscmc

I know what a plug in hybrid is and would not have selected it. Don't assume 89 percent of the people who didn't choose it don't know what it is. That cannot be inferred from these data presented.

Granted those CNN QuickPolls are not scientific. About 45% choose hybrids.

Enough people have asked me "do you plug in your car overnight" I assume there is ignorance on plug-in hybirds - just like hybrids in general.

lars-ss · #8 (**permalink**) 08-16-2005, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zadscmc

I can't understand the hype about plug-ins. Whilst you get better MPG not one person who rattles off the 100, 200, 250 numbers has stated what the required kwh is to fill the battery or incorporate that into the rating. At .17/kwh, it could add up fast.

In the following article:

http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky...s/12393325.htm

They say this:

Quote:

Like all hybrids, his Prius increases fuel efficiency by harnessing small amounts of electricity generated during breaking and coasting. The batteries let him store extra power by plugging the car into an outlet at his home in this San Francisco suburb -- all for about a quarter.

So that leads me to assume they mean it costs him 25 cents of electricity per overnite charge.

Is that not what they mean? 25 cents a night is pretty darn cheap to achieve 100+ MPG.

Also, they also mention in almost every news story that the "electricity for the plug-in cars COULD BE GENERATED by clean Solar power" so that is one way that it is being pushed.

Most stories say that some of the cars can go 30-40 miles a day using almost entirely the electric drivetrain. For me personally, that hits the sweet spot BIG TIME because my commute, total round trip, is about 14 miles.

My cost per KWH is 4 cents for overnite charging, so that's pennies per night at most. So if that means I could get TWO DAYS of driving, almost three days, all on electric, with ONE charge costing me 25 cents, WHEW AM I *SO THERE* when they start selling these cars, are you kidding me !!!$!@#!@#?!@$?!@?

MGBGT · #9 (**permalink**) 08-16-2005, 09:12 AM

I would probably not select a plug-in hybrid either.
Why?
As we know from the many discussions on this site, the conversion of energy into electric, storage as chemical (battery), re-conversion to electric, and it's use to power the drivetrain is very inefficient.
Plug-in hybrids are inherently much less efficient that plain hybrids.
If you generate the electricity for the plug-in from solar panels on the roof, or a wind-driven generator in your back yard, then that's fine, but while we have a conventional electric grid I would argue that plug-in hybrids are running ahead of the overall development, and may end up using more fossil fuel than a plain hybrid.
Plus, it alsways bugs me when people state that a plug-in gets e.g. 180 mpg. That is simply a mis-statement of facts, and I think a better way of labeling a plug-in would be as: 55mpg + 80 miles, where the 55 mpg is the true mileage the plug-in gets while driven (after the initial extra charge from being plugged in has been used up), and the 80 miles is the additional distance the vehicle can cover from the plugged in charge. These plug-ins have the additional disadvantage of having much greater weight (the extra batteries), and thus after you have exhausted the plugged-in batteries, your mileage goes down compared to a non-plug-in hybrid, because of the greater weight.

xcel · #10 (**permalink**) 08-16-2005, 09:28 AM

Hi All:

___A few additional items …

1. The Prius was not designed for pure EV at higher speeds for any lengthy distance. Lubrication and Electronic issues IIRC?
2. The current pack of the Prius II is worth ~ 2 miles in the real world from my understanding.
3. The cost of a smallish Prius II OEM pack is in the thousands of $’s from Toyota/Panasonic themselves.
4. You have a PHEV that costs ~ $31K or a straight Hybrid that costs ~ $21K.

___As we have all done the math in the past, $10K is a bunch. Some techs have said they have done it for < $3K. I hope so because even at $3K, you can drive a Prius II for 50,000 miles with gasoline at $3.00 per at just 50 mpg. Do the math at $10K and you wake up pretty quickly? That is a lot of free driving and the Prius is not half bad in the emissions department either …

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net