I've put a deposit down on an '06 Civic Hybrid that's supposed to come in next week. I've been reading around on the internet and I've found a couple of things that are making me rethink my decision.

On HybridCars.com I read a series of articles on what effects gas mileage. Everything mentioned is what I would expect but two things stood out...

In Winter Driving and Gas Mileage they say "In the winter, you use your headlights, defrosters, and heaters more. To make matters worse for Honda hybrids, the use of the defroster and heater will reduce how often the idle-stop feature kicks in. (The Honda Civic Hybrid manual says that auto-stop will not function below 32 degrees Fahrenheit.) The ability for hybrids to go all-electric during idle is essential to its fuel parsimony strategy."

In Air Conditioning and Gas Mileage they say "In the worst case, fuel efficiency for the Honda Civic with the air conditioning on was 27 percent lower than with the air conditioning off. In terms of miles-to-the-gallon, the Civic Hybrids averaged approximately 48 mpg without AC, but dropped to 35 mpg with the cool air blowing. The Toyota Prius was more than 20 percent less efficient with AC running, and even the mild hybrid Chevrolet Silverado pickup truck was 15 percent less efficient. The Idaho National Labs have not yet tested the 2006 Civic Hybrid, which was re-engineered to pull more energy from the electric motor to run air conditioning and other accessories."

Have the drivers here seen this kind of effect on their mileage from the weather? I'm going to use AC in the summer and I can't avoid the cold. In fact these conditions would affect me 8-9 months out of the year.

Also, I've read through many posts on these forums and it seems like most everyone makes an effort to garner the best mileage that they can. I just want to drive. I don't drive aggressive but I don't drive 10mph under the speed limit on the highway to get better mileage either. On a highway I'm more likely to drive 70 than 60. I might find that I'm scaling back in the future if I end up with the HCH but that's up in the air. Driving to work will be about 13 of 17 miles on the highway, fairly trafficky, so lots of speeding up to full speed and slowing down to <30, even stopping. Should I just get the EX at ~3K less (though I would get the $2100 tax credit from the HCH on next year's return)?

Thanks for the advice.

There are several post on here that deal with the financial end of the decision. As far as driving in traffic concerned, to me it was just a matter of not sticking to the bumper in front of me. I don't fall back either and slow down traffic. When I drive it normally the mileage is ok, not stellar. I have taken tips from the site and have noticed drastic increases, most of the time I don't have the patience to drive it like a hybrind. In the summer the AC killed my mpg about 2mpg, buy my commute is fairly longer than yours (53 miles one way). As for winter, I live in So. Cal. and I really don't believe we know the definition of winter. I recently did some mods which enabled the car to drive faster and conserve more gas. Hope this helps.

2 1/4 in exhaust
Exhaust Pix
Intake and CC Breather

Any of the conditions you described will result in worse mileage, no matter what car you drive. To me, driving 70 instead of 60 and not getting the full EPA mileage out of a hybrid is still better than driving 70 in a non hybrid. I run my AC frequently in the summer. I have never dealt with a 27 percent drop in efficiency from using the AC with ECON in my HCH I. More like 5-10 percent at most.

From a purely economical standpoint, you may get more value out of an EX than a hybrid. As you may have picked up from the numerous posts on "whether hybrids save money or not," it will take a few years to recoup the hybrid premium at current gas prices. Of course, if you drive alot of miles each year, you'll recoup the costs sooner than later, and that tax credit will help. And if the s#!t hits the fan with gas prices in the next few years, you'll definitely be happy you picked up the hybrid. Either way, a civic is an excellent choice, hybrid or not. Good luck.

The things you describe affect any car. I am buying the hybrid for many reasons. Honestly, if my decision was purely financial it would make more sense to buy the EX model. I am paying more for the hybrid, getting a smaller trunk, no sunroof, and probably a ride quality that is not as smooth due to the tires, but that is ok with me. Just the auto stop at lights on the hybrid is a feature that should be on all cars I think.

I believe in the technology and want to make my small attempt at helping the environment and oil use among other things. If I can help spread the mentality that more efficient cars are ok to others, that would be nice too.

In regards to driving style, I will continue to drive as I do today which employs some common sense things. I try to anticipate stops and glide to them. I do alot of highway driving and set the cruise control to about 65. While it takes me a few more minutes to get to work, I am a lot less stressed since I don't have to worry about speed traps etc. I don't do jack rabbit starts etc.

I do not plan on going to any extremes to get better mileage like doing forced stops of the engine etc as I have read some posts here talk about. If I can get in the mid forties for mpg, I will be happy. My present vehicle is rated for 23 mpg/hwy and I regularly get that and slightly above. If I can get the EPA ratings for the Civic, I'll be very happy.

Anyways, while the hybrid is more $$, it has more things going for it than just MPG in my opinion.

The most important article is the GreenHybrid.com database for your car model. When you click up the database for your car, you will see at the top the distribution of MPG by the contributors. That is your best guide.

I'm not a Honda driver but I noticed that the CVT models have a fairly normal MPG distribution curve. If you are getting one of these, look in the database for drivers whose driving profile matches your expected driving pattern. With a couple of samples, you should have a good idea about the expected MPG.

Everytime I've bought something, there comes a moment of doubt, just before I pickup it up where a voice asks, "Did you just screw up?" Yet everytime, experience has answered, "No, you didn't. It is different but you'll be OK."

So let me offer this,

You'll be OK.

Bob Wilson

Operation Iraqi Oil Freedom:

Automatic, stock, project car.

My other 1500 cc car:

Automatic, stock, backup car.
Free speech, dialog and knowledge thrives without the poison of SPAM.

Nokoon,

My wife and I live in Indianapolis, which should have very similar weather conditions and have had an 06 since November. My wife does the bulk of our driving on her 50 mile commute with 50% Interstate with heavy traffic, and 50% winding state highways/city. She has been yielding around 44-48 mpg depending on the days temperature.. I assure you that she drives it pretty much like a normal car, probably the only "hypermiler" technique that she uses is to brake a little slower. Most of my driving is stop and go inner-city 1-2 mile trips and I have been yielding low 40's or upper 30's during my stints behind the wheel.

I assure you that the car will auto-stop when the temps are in the 20's, it just has to warm up for a few minutes before this starts to function, and yes it will not stop if the defrost is turned up. No matter how you look at it, these conditions will effect any car just the same. Our 99' CR-V can get close to 30 mpg in the summer, but gets much closer to 20 mpg in my wintertime city driving. A normal car is effected by increased heater/fan use, headlight use, defrost use, etc... as its electrical system is also charged by the engine/alternator.
If you are basing your decision purely on finances, you may be happier with the EX, depending on how much you drive, but we love our Hybrid, as it saves us money, and helps reduce our dependency on oil. Good luck, you will be pleased either way.

Someone made the comment that the hybrid features are just an option like a radio. It will give you increased FE, less trips to the pump, less emissions. If this isn't worth the added cost don't buy it. A radio will make you zero money back on the purchase but people upgrade them anyway. Its all about what you want. If you just want money go to a lot and buy any used car I'm sure you can find some old metro's if you look. Probably cost you $1500 or so and get similar mpg than a civic ex. It will save you much more than any new car.

My hydroponics experiment

You ever notice how hard it is to lip read cartoon characters?
"Crazy is what the sane call Delta Flyer"

Hi;

If you want to see the real world FE of a HCH II just hang loose for another 2-3 weeks. I will have mine by then and I'm going to drive it in a normal manner. I did not say just then that I was going to drive it like a sports sedan and do the stoplight to stoplight grandprix starts. Just in a normal manner and on the interstate i usually try to drive in the right lane at around 65 -70 miles per hour.

As far as money on the purchase that is as has been stated here many times up to the individual and their finances.

Honestly, to make a final statement on this. I think a person either wants a Hybrid and is willing to alter their driving habits to some degree or "NOT". if your going to purchase a Hybrid and drive the thing like there is no tommorrow then your FE is going to be the direct reflection of that driving style.

I wish you best on your final decision regardless of which way you go.

HTH;

Terry

BTW; nokoon= Read this Review:

http://hybridcars.about.com/b/a/239716.htm?nl=1

This is a Down to Earth Review, I think you will like it:

Thanks for all the input. I think I've read every review that can be found on the internet. I did that before I made the commitment.

Many people seemed to think that the finances were a major part of the decision. They are only to the effect that it doesn't make sense to purchase a hybrid with the added expense and then only get mileage in the low 30's. You're not making a noticeable environmental statement at that point and you've spent extra money up front with the expectation that there would be.

Yes, I know that cold weather or the AC running is going to have an effect on every vehicle. But, a 25% loss in mpg is much more noticeable from 45mpg than it is from 20mpg. In my opinion, when you make a concerted effort to attain a higher mpg, a loss of that is going to be felt worse than if you don't.

I think that I am going to follow through and purchase the hybrid. The GreenHybrid DB (i didn't know it was there, thanks for the info) gives me enough confidence that while I probably won't make 50mpgs, I have a reasonable chance to make it into the 40s. I did notice some drivers that are in my "Why the heck did I buy a hybrid?" range but they are mostly in cold weather locations and I hope that my weather only has short periods in those temperature ranges, not extended periods.

Nokoon,

I was pretty much in the same situation that you find yourself in it sounds like. I was waffling back and forth between an EX manual transmission and the Hybrid. I live in York, PA so the climate should be pretty similar to Cincinnati - Low's in the 20's and occasionally 10's in the winter - highs in the upper 80's occasionally low 90's in the summer. My commute is short - about 2.5 miles with 6 red light! - is I am working on a "worst case" scenario for my daily drive. Auto-stop does NOT come on for me. I'm getting 30-33mpg in that driving. At night and on the weekends I do a fair amount of highway driving - probably two or three 40-50 mile trips/week. One of my routes has some significant hills and I'm getting around 42mpg at 65 on that trip (I don't care for the cruise control on hills - I will say that!). The other route has some light hills - it's in the 45-47mpg range. I'm not really trying too hard for mileage (yet).

For me the choice came down to three things. 1. The Hybrid is COOL! 2. The total cost of ownership over 5 years (including the tax credit) is probably equal to the EX even despite it's higher initial price. 3. If we have another gas price spike (to say $3 or 4/gallon) then I'm ahead. I miss driving a manual transmission car and I wish the Hybrid had a sunroof - but I like the car. I will be just fine with this car. Was it the right choice? Who knows? But the car will work for me.

Good luck with your decision

Eric