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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 08-22-2005, 03:08 PM
lars-ss lars-ss is offline
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Real Name: Larry S. Singleton
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Hybrids: 2007 TCH and Loving It !
Posts: 1,427
Default Should we raise the gas tax now? $6.00 a gallon?

This guy has some interesting comments and insights. Heard him on NPR today:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/21/magazine/21OIL.html?ei=5070&en=0423aa08c1b8c8de&ex=11248- 56000&pagewanted=print

Quote:
"The largest oil terminal in the world, Ras Tanura, is located on the eastern coast of Saudi Arabia, along the Persian Gulf. From Ras Tanura's control tower, you can see the classic totems of oil's dominion -- supertankers coming and going, row upon row of storage tanks and miles and miles of pipes. Ras Tanura, which I visited in June, is the funnel through which nearly 10 percent of the world's daily supply of petroleum flows. Standing in the control tower, you are surrounded by more than 50 million barrels of oil, yet not a drop can be seen. "
He personally agrees with Matthew Simmons that peak oil is NOW and that if we raised gas taxes and the Saudis came clean with the truth, things would go better for us in the ramp-up to developing and using alternative energy sources in the next 15-30 years. I tend to agree.
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Old 08-22-2005, 05:38 PM
AZCivic AZCivic is offline
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Real Name: Brandon
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Hybrids: 1997 Civic HX
Posts: 878
Default Re: Should we raise the gas tax now? $6.00 a gallon?

I'm not sure where your $6/gallon came from. Alternative fuels and alternative oil production methods (such as tar and shale to oil) become cost effective not far from the prices we're already at. Biodiesel and Ethanol are supposedly already profitable without government subsidies at $2/gallon. We blew through that price and are past $2.50/gallon in many places now, potentially on our way to $3/gallon. About the only thing I would personally support would be maybe another $0.20/gallon tax to provide incentives to accellerate the rate at which biofuel production can be scaled up to meet ever growing demand.

.

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Old 08-23-2005, 06:56 AM
lars-ss lars-ss is offline
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Real Name: Larry S. Singleton
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Default Re: Should we raise the gas tax now? $6.00 a gallon?

The $6 gas will do two things:

1. At that price, the American people WILL start to SERIOUSLY cut back on driving, which will help lower demand and thus will lower prices.
2. The added taxes will allow goverment to sponsor more and more alternative energy source programs, leading more people working on the problem and thus lead to faster results from the research.
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Old 08-23-2005, 07:48 AM
Shiloh Shiloh is offline
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Location: Colorado foothills
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Default Re: Should we raise the gas tax now? $6.00 a gallon?

And $6 per gallon will SERIOUSLY impact lower income people! Until she wrecked her car, my daughter's primary source of income was delivering newspapers. She was an "independent contractor" and was paid per paper delivered with a small adjustment for mileage - when gas prices rose, her net income dropped - it was simple as that. The newspaper agency did nothing to compensate for increased gas costs. For others, it's easy to say "take the bus" but many people do not live where there is easy access to bus service and/or the bus does not run anywhere close to where they need to go or don't run at the times they need them to run. If you need a car to get to work but the wages you earn barely cover the gas expenses, what can you do???
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Old 08-23-2005, 08:07 AM
MGBGT MGBGT is offline
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Location: too far south (TX)
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Posts: 181
Default Re: Should we raise the gas tax now? $6.00 a gallon?

In a nutshell my answer is: YES.
Maybe not to $6 per gallon, or not right away.
For me, a key reason to do this is not so much reducing gas consumption, and dependence on foreign oil, but more climate change, and most of all, preserving petroleum for those purposes where it is irreplacable: for manufacturing goods, pharmaceuticals, and the many uses that we tend to forget about.
Eventually, we will find other ways to power vehicles. It will be much harder to find replacements for many plastics and pharmaceuticals that use petrochemical products.

.

GreenHybrid.com Hybrid Cars Mileage
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Old 08-23-2005, 08:25 AM
zadscmc zadscmc is offline
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Real Name: Charlie...
Location: Stockton, NJ
Hybrids: 04 Civic Hybrid (MT) 05 Escape Hybrid (AWD)
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Default Re: Should we raise the gas tax now? $6.00 a gallon?

I am in favor of raising the gas tax, significantly and immediately, under certain caveats.
The are as follows:
1) It is a pre-emptive strike to pay by the mile
2) The proceeds are used to improve and maintain the highways (better highways, smoother roads, mean better mileage)
3) The proceeds are used to REALLY research and develop on a fast track alternative fuels for the transportation insdustry.

While we, as hypermilers, look at our gas tanks, mpg, and gasoline/diesel bills, the true impact of the higher oil prices will surface in the winter time when we will have to pay premium prices for items that we take for granted during the summer. I am referring specifically to vegetables (grown locally in most regions in the summer) and heating oil (which we don't use a lot of in the summer and needs to be trucked in).

Just think, a tax of $1.00 per gallon, for my 700 mile weekly commute would raise my gasoline bill from $30 to $42. It would raise the person getting 20 mpg from $87.50 to $107.50. Someone, somewhere will begin to notice that the 20 mpg vehicle at $100+ per week, needs to do some economization. Maybe.

Or are we just so flush with cash, no one will notice???

.


-Charlie...
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Old 08-23-2005, 08:44 AM
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Delta Flyer Delta Flyer is offline
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Real Name: Chuck
Location: Lewisville (Dallas), Texas
Hybrids: 2000 Honda Enzyte 5-speed
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Default Re: Should we raise the gas tax now? $6.00 a gallon?

I favor spiking the gas tax - proportionally cutting the income tax.

Politics will make it complicated - give the working poor and truckers a break (don't have a problem with that).

.

61.5mpg lifetime - 82mpg in recent months

Best Run >
www.cleanmpg.com

"fanatic" is what the lazy call the dedicated
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Old 08-23-2005, 08:47 AM
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accwai accwai is offline
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Real Name: Andy Wai
Location: Toronto, Canada
Hybrids: 2004 Prius
Posts: 47
Default Re: Should we raise the gas tax now? $6.00 a gallon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zadscmc
[...]Just think, a tax of $1.00 per gallon, for my 700 mile weekly commute would raise my gasoline bill from $30 to $42. It would raise the person getting 20 mpg from $87.50 to $107.50. Someone, somewhere will begin to notice that the 20 mpg vehicle at $100+ per week, needs to do some economization. Maybe.

Or are we just so flush with cash, no one will notice???
Or people will just stop paying for the gas they use. Check this out. The situation will probably get real chaotic way before gas price hits $6US a gallon.

Andy
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 08-23-2005, 09:06 AM
zadscmc zadscmc is offline
Have hybrid, will travel.
 
Real Name: Charlie...
Location: Stockton, NJ
Hybrids: 04 Civic Hybrid (MT) 05 Escape Hybrid (AWD)
Posts: 464
Default Re: Should we raise the gas tax now? $6.00 a gallon?

Technology can fix that, you just mandate that the gas won't pump without a credit, debit or gift card.

If the buyer doesn't have a CC, you sell them a gift card at the kiosk for $100, slide the money into a safe (no change, thank you), and if they only pump $50, they have $50 left for the next time.

In NJ, this happens less frequently, because we are not intelligent enough to pump our own gas. We have Petroleum Transfer Technicans.

.


-Charlie...

Last edited by zadscmc : 08-23-2005 at 09:07 AM. Reason: fixed a stupid typo
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 08-23-2005, 09:40 AM
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Delta Flyer Delta Flyer is offline
Cng Attitudes-Not Physics
 
Real Name: Chuck
Location: Lewisville (Dallas), Texas
Hybrids: 2000 Honda Enzyte 5-speed
Posts: 3,146
Default Re: Should we raise the gas tax now? $6.00 a gallon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zadscmc
....we are not intelligent enough to pump our own gas. We have Petroleum Transfer Technicans.
Oregon also prohibits self-serve at the pump - gets annoying if the guys at the station ignore you.....

.

61.5mpg lifetime - 82mpg in recent months

Best Run >
www.cleanmpg.com

"fanatic" is what the lazy call the dedicated
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