I agree. They should take it even one step further and make it so that carpool is 2 or more licensed drivers in the vehicle, not just any 2 or more people. I know it would be a nightmare to enforce.

Well, all that is fine, but the bottom line is that I'm not "cheating" since the law specifically was created to get people like me to buy hybrids by giving us access to underused lanes.

Those proposals are nice, but they are not on the table in VA. The only thing on the table is taking away hybrid access for HOV lanes.

If you want to kill the hybrid industry in the DC Metro area, you'll support removing hybrids from the lane and putting them in the general lanes. If you support complete congestion, and therefore increased pollution, you'll support hybrids in normal lanes.

Hybrids in HOV lanes take people like me who normally would be driving vehicles emitting pollution and put us in clean cars, all while using less gas. They also reduce congestion on normal lanes. Less congestion means less consumption, which is better for the environment.

This is a win-win for everyone.

Curt--let me spell it out for you. A drive in the normal lane would take me 2 hours each way to work. About 3 and half hours a day roundtrip. In the HOV lanes, 1 hour each way, 2 hours roundtrip. If that was your life, you'd see it as a pretty big incentive also.

And the thing is, I know at least a dozen people who work the same place I do who drive hybrids for the exact same reason. Bottom line is that I simply wouldn't have bought it otherwise, as much as I think its a great car.

Its either-or here in the real world--do you want people in clean cars or not? And more importantly, does the government reneg on its incentive or not?

Look, we can all see where you are coming from and would probably do the same thing....but it is not an either/or scenario as you seem to believe. As I pointed out, there are other options whether or not they are "on the table". The purpose of the HOV is to reduce the number of vehicles on the road....and allowing HEV's in those lanes is contrary to its intent. Quite frankly, if the goal has become reduced emissions/consumption, then we (or more accurately, Virginia) should re-task the lanes altogether. Do away with HOV lanes and make them ULEV lanes, SULEV lanes or PZEV lanes. If the logic is to let vehicles that consume less fuel drive in these special lanes then shouldn't the owner of a regular old gas powered Toyota Corolla and its 41 mpg highway get to use the same lanes that a Ford Escape Hybrid and its 29 mpg highway get to use??? Come to think of it.....wouldn't it be BETTER to have Priuses and Escape Hybrids sitting in the traffic backups (since they pollute less and can shut off their engines at idle) and let the polluting 'regular cars' use the HOV lanes so we can get them and their gas-guzzling engines off the road more quickly???

Yes, I know this sounds silly....but so does opening up HOV lanes to HEV's. Either use the lanes as intended or change the purpose and change the qualifications.

-Tim

2006 Mercury Mariner Hybrid AWD
Black with Pebble interior
Premium Package with Nav & Moonroof



Current ODO: 26,152
Typical Drive: 20 min crosstown in heavy traffic (3.5mi there and back twice a day)


532 Gallons of gas saved
That's 10,642 lbs less CO2 emitted

I didn't even know about the HOV lane exemption until after purchasing my car. And it's very rare that I'd get to use it (maybe 2 - 4 times/year) so it's not a big issue to me. I just want to point out that my car (and perhaps all hybrids, I'm just not sure) are rated as AT-PZEV. So my car burning a gallon of gas puts out a lot less emissions than a Taurus burning a gallon of gas. It's not just the higher mileage that causes this. The combination of the Atkinson cycle engine and the hybrid system allows the engine to stay in a more efficient range of operation, causing a more complete combustion of the fuel.

Yes, I understand your point about encouraging people to carpool. I actually think they should never have had the exemption for hybrids. But once they enacted it they should not reverse it like they're planning. Get rid of the exemption for any cars registered after a certain date, but grandfather the rest. Don't allow people to transfer the plates, so once their car is off the road the exemption is gone. They may be a minority, but for people like MFLetou it will be a hardship that he purposely purchased a hybrid to avoid.

Did you not receive a tax deduction or tax credit when you purchased your hybrid car? I know that I did but that certainly wasn't the reason I bought one (or two for that matter).

While I agree with you that it sucks that they would pull the rug out from under you by changing the rules about HOV lanes. Nobody likes giving up something that they have become used to, myself included. But.....HOV lane usage has always had dynamic rules - they adjust the usage rules to reflect the increase in traffic using the lanes and to prevent them from becoming just as gridlocked as the main lanes.

There is a theory in traffic engineering (in which I would have a masters degree if I bothered taking a couple more classes ) that says that if there is a route that provides a faster travel time, that route will eventually attract sufficient traffic to equal the travel time of the original route. The same theory could be applied to HOV lanes - once they are no longer an advantage, you have to tighten access to them or eliminate them altogether. That has happened in some places and in many cases you could ease traffic for everyone by eliminating the barriers and dividers, etc.

"Yes, I know this sounds silly....but so does opening up HOV lanes to HEV's. Either use the lanes as intended or change the purpose and change the qualifications."

Well, the problem is that you're making an assumption about how they are intended. Right now, they ARE intended for hybrid use because that's what the law says. From the state's perspective, it wasn't just about encouraging hybrid usage, it is getting cars off of clogged lanes onto not-so-clogged lanes.

What is frustrating is that the state is saying that HOV lanes all getting clogged, too, but its a lie. The only place they actually jam are the places were regular vehicles are allowed on, like the end of 395 at the Pentagon. 66 is free and clear every morning, until the TR bridge traffic which is non-HOV. The DTR lanes are clear except for violators.

I'm not an expert but I think you are mistaken. Emissions ratings like the EPA's "air pollution score" and "Greenhouse gas score" as well as the ULEV, SULEV, etc. ratings are all based on emissions PER MILE which vary according to fuel economy. In today's engines combustion is very complete and the remaining uncombusted fuel is dealt with by the catalytic converters. The bottom line is that burning 1 gallon of the same fuel in any vehicle results in the same amount of emissions. The reason that certain cars have lower emissions is not based upon the completeness of their combustion, rather the distance that they can travel on the fuel itself. The efficiency of an engine/system has little to do with its ability to cleanly burn the fuel. Efficiency refers to the ability of a vehicle to capture the energy released during that combustion and translate it into movement. If you took a 2006 Ford Taurus and a 2006 Toyota Prius, put a gallon of fuel in each and ran them until they were empty, they would produce the same amount of emissions. That is why 2 Priuses are not better than 1 Taurus because the two Priuses would use the same amount of fuel as 1 Taurus and thus produce the same amount of emissions and DOUBLE the wear and volume on the highways.


(the EPA ratings also take into consideration things like fuel evaporation but I'm not going to bother addressing that portion of the rating as I think it is inconsequential. Also, emissions depend upon things like regional differences is fuel blends and other factors. However, burning one gallon of the same gas on the same road should result in nearly identical emissions levels.)

-Tim

2006 Mercury Mariner Hybrid AWD
Black with Pebble interior
Premium Package with Nav & Moonroof



Current ODO: 26,152
Typical Drive: 20 min crosstown in heavy traffic (3.5mi there and back twice a day)


532 Gallons of gas saved
That's 10,642 lbs less CO2 emitted

I have a very basic question. When the law was enacted for hybrids using HOV was there a clear time limit stated on how long it will be in place. If the law was only till 2007 people who bought Hybrids should not expect to have it automatically renewed. Yes, it would be nice to have it extended but there is nothing wrong to say the law will expire as intended. Just like lower estate taxes are set to expire in 2010. Or the tax credits for Toyota Hybrids will expire on Oct 1st 2007. MFLetou used to the hybrid to his advantage so far but is unhappy that it is not available to him anymore after 2007.

On the other had if the law was for hybrids to use the HOV lane indefinitely and then the State of Virginia wants to change the rules, then he and similar persons should be grandfathered.

The initial laws concerning "Clean Special Fuels" vehicles (VA Code 33.1-46.2 and 46.2-749.3) were introduced in 1993 and went into effect in 1994. They were updated to include Hybrid Vehicles in 2000, and their expiration dates have been extended several times. The most recent extension was from 1 July 2004 to 1 July 2006, with the new amendment this year to limit the exemption for I-95/I-395 to 1 July 2006, but allow it to go forward to 1 July 2007 for other HOV areas.

While the HOV Task Force (see http://www.virginiadot.org/infoservi...t%201-4-05.pdf) has recommended the exemption not be extended again, it's up to the 2007 session of the General Assembly to make the decision.

Curt

Curt

Reading through the summary first few pages it appears that the law was set to expire at a specific date and Hybrid owners should have been aware that it might not be extended. So buying a hybrid expecting long term use of the hybrid in HOV lane and single occupancy was not realistic. Secondly the federal government did not envisage use of HOV lanes by Hybrid and was not in keeping with the spirit of the HOV usage plan. I feel that hybrid vehicle owners should purchase it solely for its fuel efficiency aspect and if any additional bonuses like federal and state tax credits are available, they are just icing on the cake.