Yes, that's all correct.

Thats why I started this post. Its up to the VA State Legislature. I'm going to be campaigning to maintain the rule as it is, and I'm seeking like minded Virginians to do the same. I see dozens of them everyday, and I thought a few might be on here as well.

The feds have softened by the way...

I'm sure you do feel that way, Greenville. But trust me---if you lived here, and your hybrid saved you 2 hours a DAY--every single day---so you could maybe spend some time with your newborn baby like the situation I'm going to be in--you'd want the exemption continued too.

Plus, and more importantly, it simply makes good policy sense. Those of you who have never driven it have no conception on what these roads look like unless you live in LA. Putting thousands of hybrids back on these roads will create mass gridlock the likes of which nobody has ever seen before.

Furthmore, some of you are missing the forest for the trees here...what is the point of an HOV lane when there is virtually ZERO enforcement? That's right, almost none. What's worse? Allowing hybrids on there, or allowing everybody else.

Every single day, I submit that more non-hybrid single occupant vehicles use HOV lanes than hybrid single occupant vehicles. This is because enforcement is so sporadic that its a risk worth taking for thousands of drivers.

So wouldn't it make more sense to actually enforce the lanes before kicking hybrids out?

No, it would make more sense to either ban all non-HOV vehicles from the HOV lanes or change the HOV lanes to fuel efficiency lanes. Anything in the middle is a waste and accomplishes nothing but to allow people who can afford a new Hybrid an unearned benefit. Allowing Hybrids in the HOV lanes benefits only the Hybrid owners. It does not benefit society nor does it reduce congestion. The ONLY way to reduce congestion is to have fewer cars on the road or to build bigger roads.

-Tim

2006 Mercury Mariner Hybrid AWD
Black with Pebble interior
Premium Package with Nav & Moonroof



Current ODO: 26,152
Typical Drive: 20 min crosstown in heavy traffic (3.5mi there and back twice a day)


532 Gallons of gas saved
That's 10,642 lbs less CO2 emitted

This is a very good link. Click on "Understanding the Prius" and then click on "The Internal Combustion Engine". I can't provide a link directly to this page for some reason. It explains, much better than I can. Most of it talks about the efficiencies, but there are some references to emissions (from enriched air/fuel mixtures) in the article.

MFLetou

One suggestion I liked in that paper was to increase the license plate annual fee from $10 to $500 per year, which came to $2 per working day “toll”. And give it to fuel efficient vehicles alone. So it achieves an increase usage of HOV lanes by hybrids and people with hybrids who do not want to pay the increased fee can drive in the regular lanes. And the increased revenue can put more police on the lanes to catch the offenders, which will bring in additional revenue. I used to live in NJ area and commuted to NY every day and not only was the traffic on I-80 horrible in the mornings; the toll on the George Washington Bridge was astronomical, with no reduction for hybrids or HOV. By comparison a $2 per day is not asking too much.

Tim
Making it fuel efficient lanes will open up Pandora’s box. What is fuel efficient? 50 mg Prius hybrid or 38 mpg TCH or a 45 mpg Honda Fit that is not a hybrid. Is it mpg or emissions? Is it EPA rating or the real world figures or figures of pulse and glide enthusiasts? Let us leave it as HOV lanes which are easy to enforce and has no ambiguity built in.

No ambiguity but it seems to be completely arbitrary that hybrid vehicles alone would get the use of the HOV lanes. Is someone driving a GMC (so-called hybrid) pickup at 12 mpg benefitting anyone environmentally using the HOV lane?

Maybe they should make the HOV lane available to vehicles that are 2000 pound GVWR or under. You can squeeze a lot more small cars in a lane of traffic than you can a large SUV. Then if you make those small cars have to have 2 or 3 or more people inside, then your throughput really increases - more cars multiplied by more people per car.....besides, in general the smaller the car, the better the mileage. Everyone wins.

The two emissions-related items I saw are in regards to running "rich" or "lean".
He talks about "oxygen nitrates" which can be produced by any engine running lean and hot so this shouldn't be different in either hybrids or regular vehicles. The other is about an engine running rich and the unburned fuel that results. It does mention that the addition of the electric motor eliminates the need for a hybrid like the Prius to run rich for burst of power...of course, it earlier addresses the fact that the catalytic convertor deals with most unburned fuel resulting from running rich anyway. So while the Prius doesn't have to run rich because of the motor, a Taurus, even running rich, isn't going to produce more emissions because they will be oxidized by the catalytic convertor.

-Tim

2006 Mercury Mariner Hybrid AWD
Black with Pebble interior
Premium Package with Nav & Moonroof



Current ODO: 26,152
Typical Drive: 20 min crosstown in heavy traffic (3.5mi there and back twice a day)


532 Gallons of gas saved
That's 10,642 lbs less CO2 emitted

It may open up a pandoras box but it makes more sense than letting HEV's into the HOV lanes. My point was that if the intention is to reduce congestion by encouraging carpooling then leave HOV lanes for vehicles with 2 or more persons. If the "new" idea is to let fuel efficient vehicles use HOV lanes then set a minimum efficiency level and change the requirements.

The problem, as I see it, is that our society is extremely vehicle dependant....and people are extremely independant. In other words, everyone has a car and everyone wants to drive their car. Most people do NOT want to depend on someone else for a ride and they do not want to lose their 'freedom' to come and go as they want. I don't think that HOV lanes will prove very successful in this country as a way of reducing congestion.

-Tim

2006 Mercury Mariner Hybrid AWD
Black with Pebble interior
Premium Package with Nav & Moonroof



Current ODO: 26,152
Typical Drive: 20 min crosstown in heavy traffic (3.5mi there and back twice a day)


532 Gallons of gas saved
That's 10,642 lbs less CO2 emitted

The idea was both.


Basically, VA saw a way to induce a win-win situation and went for it. They had hybrid cars which were good for the environment, and they wanted to encourage people to buy them. And they had massive congeston on regular roads, and not enough people using HOV lanes, so they were able to get some traffic off of normal roads and onto HOVs.

And the system is working great. There's no reason to change it. Not every hybrid gets access, by the way. This is not an automatic system. You need a special license plate, and only certain vehicles get the license plate. The Commonwealth decides which ones.

Tim, some of the problem is simply unique to Washington, DC. This is about the least carpool friendly place on earth because it can't be. I'd love for you to find me a carpool partner--because of the nations 3rd highest housing costs, I live 36 miles away from work (it was all I could afford). I need to get to work around 9 every day. Because I work for a senior US government official, I leave every day between 5 pm and 9 pm. I have no idea when I'll be leaving work on any given day. I average around 6:45. Somedays its 6, the day it could be 7. It depends on current events.

There are tens of thousands in DC just like me, but everybody's schedule is different. For all the fun some of you might make of it, we all collectively run the government, and that's simply not a 9-5 job. But its not a 9-6 job either. Its a whenever you need to get them to however late you need to say job.

So as a result, nobody can carpool. It simply won't work in this area. Sure, some people can and do do it, but simply because of the "industry" in this town as compared to others, it isn't as successful. Of course, we desperately need to build more roads aorund here too and we haven't done that. As a metro area, we have tremendous growth but no new infrastructure. I live in a county that has seen its population nearly double over the last 8 years. Only new roads are local ones. Its absurd.

If they want to raise the price for the license plate, fine, I'll pay it. Time is money. But this area will be going to a hotlane system eventually anyway, where the more money you have and are willing to spend, the faster you get to go. So I fail to see how that's a particularly fair answer either.

I'm just saying that you've got a system that works now in terms of HOV lane usage, so why change it? If there is a problem, its that the lanes aren't enforce and ICE single drivers are using HOV lanes.

Why is everyone so bent up about people supporting the environment and using less fuel?

The hybrid rules were originally introduced to help the area meet federal smog standards..NOT to solely reduce traffic...

Some thoughts:

Ever see all those Government, or supposed government vehicles on the HOV? one occupant, gas guzzlers, unmarked or private vehicles with a blue light in the front windhsield going 85mph? How long is the commute round trip for one of those vehicles? Say, conservatively (very) that there are 1,000 of those vehicles per day on the HOV. Round trip of hmmm...40 miles(VERY conservative!)? Crown Vic getting 10MPG, maybe (85mph, probably 6)...that's 4 gallons per day at $2.50 per gallon...$10.00 per day x 1000 = $10,000 per day x 5 days a week = $50,000 per week...ok...conservative 45 weeks a year = $2.25 million dollars a year, just in gas paid by taxpayers..then wear and tear, pollution, more congestion on highway...etc...

What is the official use policy for these vehicles..I KNOW that all these vehicles are NOT official vehicles, let alone under the intended use of the "blue light exemption" which is NOT to allow for commuting, but only those on offcial business..got it...

What would the potential gains be to the lanes to exclude those vehicles? 1000 = 1/4 of all hybrids, right?

I know of a dual police family that keeps two cars in the driveway...and they only drive them...great deal!!!

I understand that for crime deterence, some exemptions are granted...but 20-40 miles each way? The full blown cruisers dont really bother me, because they seme to keep the ignorant crazy drivers at bay...but all the rest? come on...


Also in regard to the hybrids,..with the 1 Jun 06 cutoff, and the attrition rate, the pure numbers of grandfathered hybrids automatically is reduced, especially with the high number of military and fluid assignments of the DC area...no new plates, right?

OK...thoughts?

And yes, I own a hybrid and pick up riders...good entertainment at the least!!

Welcome!
What type of hybrid?

Does N. Virgina still have those areas where drivers can pickup riders for the HOV lanes? I can understand why it wouldn't work on the way out . . . you'd need to coordinate a pickup.

Active duty or retired? Which service, the former Marine E-5 asks?

Bob Wilson

Operation Iraqi Oil Freedom:

Automatic, stock, project car.

My other 1500 cc car:

Automatic, stock, backup car.
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