Man this really hurt our mpg numbers...
http://www.fquick.com/blog/New_EPA_T...d_MPG_for_Cars

Relax, they also recalculated all vehicles. Although the ratio has been slightly reduced, over the long haul, this will be a good thing. Our hybrids will only get better over time while ICE only technology has reached its zenith. Nuttin' but good times from September on.

As for the skeptics, I added this to their 'blog:'

Can anyone buy $2.70/gal gas anymore? Regardless, the "15,000" is an average. You can assume about 50% of all drivers are putting more miles per year. In my case, about 20-25,000 miles per year so my payoff time is a lot shorter. Now my wife has done 25,000 miles in 5 years. I don't care if she drives something that looks like an M1 tank since she doesn't put enough miles on the odometer per year to matter. Heck, it would encourage her to keep it parked and let me driver her in our 52 MPG Prius.

Bob Wilson

Operation Iraqi Oil Freedom:

Automatic, stock, project car.

My other 1500 cc car:

Automatic, stock, backup car.
Free speech, dialog and knowledge thrives without the poison of SPAM.

Well, I looked at the numbers for the Escape Hybrid and I don't know what they're talking about. The '08 FEH 2WD is rated 34 city/30 Highway on the window and cityhe list they're using says it should be 29 city. I think they're using 4WD as representative of the whole class.

they make it sound like because the estimate has been lowered, that we can't hypermile as well. what the heck? it's an estimate, and we still know our way around that. they can lower mine all they want, but i am still pulling close to 60MPG in the summer.....

Best fill 66.7 MPG, best tank 801.5 miles



laurie, central minnesota

Does this mean everybody gets a star now?

Dont worry - all the muscle car enthusiasts that are happy to see the hybrid "EPA" mpgs drop would squeal too if the EPA started doing "new" 0-60 or 1/4 mile ratings, or "drag strip tests" of their cars.

I bet a few would claim that the EPA drag strip tests are not representative and that they, personally, are much quicker than the EPA numbers....

All but the lower 10-15%. <GRINS>

In fact, we'll have to find a new achievement award and I think the 1,000 mile tank is perfect, at least for the Prius. I can't answer for the other hybrids.

Toyota claims the Prius is good for 600 miles on one tank. This is achievable but to achieve a 1,000 miles on one tank takes real attention to detail and understanding and commitment.

Both our NHW20 and NHW11 Prius can achieve this by driving 50-55 hours at a steady speed of 18-20 miles per hour. The biggest challenge is route planning and making sure the driver paces themselves. The up-coming Memorial Day weekend, 72-84 hours would be a perfect time for such an effort. Although long days, starting with Friday afternoon May 25, the driver could simply 'do laps' in an industrial park until time to head home and take a nap.

Before starting the effort, the driver should make sure there is plenty of water, beverages and know where the bathroom breaks will be. Safety is an important consideration so the driver should affix a "slow vehicle" sign to the trunk. In the USA that means do not exceed 25 miles per hour but since the target is 18-20 miles per hour, this is not that big of a deal.

The last thing before filling the tank, the driver needs to run about 30 minutes at highway speeds to throughly warm-up the ICE and get everything 'in the zone.' Then the driver needs to top off their tank with their favorite gasoline (I've become partial to Shell but Sunoco also has a good reputation) and a small, spare can, ~1 gallon, so they can drive until the ICE stops. Reset the MFD and trip meters, both of them, and put a piece of plastic over the MFD to avoid accidental erasure.

On the first night, when fatigue or common sense dictates, the driver should leave for home around midnight. This avoids most traffic. and allows a safe return to home at 18-20 miles per hour.

If the car has a block heater, use it or other means, say a space heater, to keep the ICE at operating temperature over night. The next morning, 30 minutes before dawn, the driver uses the lack of traffic to return at 18-20 miles per hour to the industrial park and resumes laps.

The driver needs to pace themselves which means, comfort such as pillows or blankets for the seats. Drive but not to exhaustion. A short catnap is much better than an accident. Music and radio are good things to have. I would not consider it a 'cheap date' but you never know. Bring a notebook or clipboard and make a log of each segment.

Each night, plot the progress. A typical scenario should be:

1. Friday afternoon, evening, 8 hours, 160 miles
2. Saturday, 16 hours, 320 miles, total 480 miles (nearly half way!)
3. Sunday, 16 hours, 320 miles, total 800 miles (just about there!)
4. Monday, 10 hours, 200 miles, total 1,000 miles (TA-DA!!)

This assumes you have been keeping track of your maintenance items. This should include oil quality and level, ICE air cleaner, tires at maximum cold pressure, and tires aligned. At these speeds, drive with the windows down in comfortable clothes and sun screen.

Depending upon your confidence, it may make sense to send a press release to the local media before starting the effort. After filling the tank, put some sort of 'seal' over the filler and take a photo. But for the final gas mileage, drive to a gas station, photo breaking the seal and the fill-up. Buy your gas with a printed receipt, photos of the MFD and let us know how it worked!

Once you've got the braggin' rights, put together a web page of your accomplishment and add this tank to your GreenHybrid mileage. Then for good measure, start looking for skeptics and have your '1,000 mile tank' scrapbook handy.

Now as for our good friends who drive other hybrids, we need 'to talk.' I think a similar performance goal makes sense for all hybrids but I don't know enough about the other models, especially the IMA and GM systems to suggest what that goal should be.

My first thought is the other hybrids have different 'payload' capabilities. It would make sense to 'occupy' each seat with a 170 lb passenger (possibly a manikin) and luggage load. This would give the weight hybrids a fair playing field and cut down the distance to 500 miles.

My second thought is the weight hybrids might tow another vehicle behind them:

• Chevy Aveo - with a sign that says "CNW Marketing Eat . . ."
• Insight - with a sign that says "Special Super Duper Marathon . . ."
• Turbo Direct Injection vehicle - with a German or French logo

IMHO, establishing a North American 1,000 miler club, not a team effort but individual effort, makes a lot of sense. Then after we get enough members, we can start looking at the 'fastest driving time to achieve a 1,000 mile tank.' That will be especially interesting.

Bob Wilson

Operation Iraqi Oil Freedom:

Automatic, stock, project car.

My other 1500 cc car:

Automatic, stock, backup car.
Free speech, dialog and knowledge thrives without the poison of SPAM.

Boy, I dont know about wasting a tank of gas, let alone a weekend, just to drive in circles - seems to go against why I bought the car in the first place.

Even guys on a drag strip or 4-wheeling that weekend may be using less fuel.

Getting many miles on a tank during normal commuting seems more productive and does show that the EPA numbers can be met/beat in a hybrid.

Sometimes, like the weekend drag strip enthusiasts and car rally drivers, you burn gas for amusement. Hybrid skeptics like to project false claims about one-dimensional hybrid owners as if we can't have fun. To heck with them, life is too short to not have a little fun. Chill out and enjoy the freedom. But if you want to do it in just commuting, there is a way.

Break it up into 4 hour segments, two per day, but keep the speed at 18-20 miles per hour. Do one in the early morning and one in the late evening. That should come in at about 160 miles per day. That will take about 7 work days and be done with it.

But sometimes, you don't get to set the goals and others will declare something to be the standard. We can ignore it or take it as just another engineering challenge. Once 'put in the can,' we can move on or in my case, back to understanding the engineering characteristics of our cars. Then we can get back to the serious work of making these techniques automatic, the default behavior.

You need to understand that I personally don't put a whole lot of stock in these "whole tank" marathon efforts. What makes more sense would be a calibrated amount of gasoline, say 1 gallon or 4 liters, and then drive for distance and time. IMHO for a Prius, that should be ~100 miles and take about 5 hours. Then to normalize the data, the maximum payload would be used to calculate the payload - passenger efficiency, the seat miles. This would work for almost all of the vehicles and get us out of these "tank" marathons.

I have to admit a certain amount of amusement that only hybrids have been used for these marathon efforts. I'm amused because of claims that a non-hybrid can do as well as a hybrid but that is not what is being used.

Bob Wilson

Operation Iraqi Oil Freedom:

Automatic, stock, project car.

My other 1500 cc car:

Automatic, stock, backup car.
Free speech, dialog and knowledge thrives without the poison of SPAM.

I dont think thats a fair comparison. Gas-guzzling sports fanatics buy the car to drive "fast" But since it is illegal to drive 150 on the hwy, they take it to the track and time it. They dont buy it to drive slow. Prius drivers buy the car to save gas. Hypermilling allows us to do that.