It never ceases to amaze me how the some articles can put a negative spin on anything.

The new EPA figures are closer to typical real world results, yet that causes concerns is that bad news?

The "hybrid hit" is hyped when the annual fuel consumption of the thirstier vehicles should be the item raising eyebrows.

61.5mpg lifetime - 82mpg in recent months

Best Run >
www.cleanmpg.com

"fanatic" is what the lazy call the dedicated

My feeling is that the "Hypermiler Star Method" (HSM) needs to be revisited. I would suggest that a Hypermiler is achieved when they have driven over 6,000 miles with an average 120% greater than the new EPA combined averages. I would also include a new column in the display = % of EPA.

For example:
Ford Escape Hybrid – new EPA combined average is 30 mpg
30mpg * 120% = 36mpg
To qualify for Hypermiler status with a Ford Escape Hybrid you would need an average of 36mpg or better and 6,000 miles driven.

Saturn Vue Hybrid – new combined average is 26mpg
26mpg * 120% = 31.2mpg
To qualify for Hypermiler status with a Saturn Vue Hybrid you would need an average of 31.2mpg or better and 6,000 miles driven.
(And you are correct, I would qualify for that.)

As for driving around in circles in order to achieve a 1,000 mile tank – “to each their own”. I am more proud of my real world mpg figures, my 500 real world mile tank and my ticketless driving record.

No test by EPA, or by anyone else, will ever be completely satisfactory to everyone because of the individual variation in mileage results due to driving habits etc.

For my HAH, I have averaged 29.3 mpg over almost 13k miles. This is better than the old EPA of 28 and way better than the new EPA of 25. But a look at the overall database for HAH reveals that for cars of >5000 miles reported, mpg ranges from 18.0 to 37.3.

I know that if I wanted to be first off the line at each stoplight and make best and fun use of all my 255hp, I would probably get less than 20mpg. I also know that if I used the vehicle mainly on the highway my average would be close to or over 40mpg.

Similar results are to be expected for other vehicles both hybrid and conventional. Examining the database confirms this for hybrids at least and the new EPA numbers may even be low compared to the values listed in the greenhybrid database based on my spot examination. But unfortunately the greenhybrid database is biased because it is a voluntary database. There my be more incentive to take the time to post data if one does better versus if one does poory than expected.

I don't think that EPA is vindictive or trying to lie. Because the testing program they do for all vehicles is the same, the bias is likely lower than our own individual numbers or this site's database. However they do the testing cannot replicate how each of us drives our vehicles and therefore cannot be used as a basis for personal use estimate. That being said, the best use of the EPA numbers is for comparison between vehicles - like when make a purchase decision. An EPA 30mpg car versus an EPA 25mpg car may never achieve the 30mpg for an individual driver but probably will get 5mpg better than the alternative.

R. Mark Owens - Casper Desert Mist

I agree with owenscasper. Any absolute number is irrelevant. I totally tend to ignore what a particular car's EPA numbers are. What is helpful is how its numbers are in relation with other cars. If you follow that rule ... you will never go wrong ... no matter what your driving style is or what kind of climate / terrain you drive in.

Whether you use the old numbers or the new ones ... if the vehicle you're considering has a 50% improvement in EPA numbers compared to the vehicle you already drive ... then you should expect a 50% improvement with the new vehicle. Now with that 50% improvement you may still not hit the EPA numbers for the old vehicle but thats a whole different issue.

I would actually like to see EPA MPG numbers go away and instead they give us some form of relative ratings on a scale of 1 to 100. If that number is never claimed to correspond to MPG ... no one will ever complain... well atleast won't have a good reason to

I would rather they give a range of numbers as well to include what most of the population will get. So for example, for the prius, have the numbers be the following:

city: 33-63
HWY: 35-65

and this should include most of the population, hopefully that range will include about 85-90% of the people that drive the prius. Sure there will be a few people getting 70 MPG on the prius, and sure there will be people getting 27. But we want to include as many people as possible.

when i was talking to the owner of my company during an interview done with the AP today (details to follow when i know when it's going to be published), he suggested another way to rate cars is by their total emissions. we all know that our hybrids are low emission, but how many others can say that? and isn't that just as important as high mileage. the entire environmental effect of our cars should be considered.....just my humble opinion.

Best fill 66.7 MPG, best tank 801.5 miles


laurie, central minnesota

Speaking of emissions, it's worst when the car is warming up, accelerating or ideling. Your driving can affect the amount of emissions on a trip.

61.5mpg lifetime - 82mpg in recent months

Best Run >
www.cleanmpg.com

"fanatic" is what the lazy call the dedicated

true. this, and the waste of gas, is one of the reasons when he asked about my habits, i told him i get so irritated by people who warm their car up in the lot for 1/2 or more before leaving work......or those (usually trucks where i live) who let their vehicles idle in the gas station while they are either....filling it.....going in for coffee....picking their nose, whatever. there have been mornings where i was surrounded by at least 4 idling pickup trucks.

Best fill 66.7 MPG, best tank 801.5 miles


laurie, central minnesota

****. Do I have to give back my extra mpg now? And who gets it?

"...in summary, the two top-selling hybrid vehicles, the Prius and Honda's Civic Hybrid, will lose 12 and 11 miles per gallon respectively from their city driving estimates. Ouch."

That tells us absolutely nothing. If the initial mileage estimate was 100mpg, then a 11mpg drop would barely be significant at all. If the cars were getting 20mpg before, that's a DOUBLING a fuel consumption.


As for the EPA estimates, take the following as a made-up example of old vs new numbers:

Hybrid: 55mpg to 44mpg (an "11 MPG drop" or a 20% drop)
SUV: 15mpg to 14mpg (a "1 MPG drop", a 6.6% drop)

In reality, the change in mileage for the SUV would represent a larger fuel cost for the driver. Over the course of 1000 miles, the hybrid owner would expect to pay for 4.5 extra gallons with that "huge" 11mpg drop, and the SUV owner would have to pay for 4.8 gallons with that "insignicant" 1 mpg drop. This is why reporting fuel consumption in liters/100km is actually much more intuitive. People would get a much more realistic picture of fuel consumption if numbers were reported in say gallons per 1000 miles.