Hi Delta_Flyer:

___Back in 1989, I used to own a Honda CBR-600F. One of the best 600 cc and under Rice Rockets of its time. I was only nailing down ~ 56 mpg tanks per my distance/gallons calc’s with it IIRC and I drove with momentum and slower speed accelerations in mind. Very similar to the way I drive today in fact. I am making a guess here but I bet most motorcycle riders receive from the high 30’s to low 60’s depending on which bike they are riding? I have to admit to never really looking into it. A bike’s main advantage is a small frontal area and extremely light weight. The main disadvantage as has already been discussed is that they are huge emitter’s of SMOG related emissions as most do not even have a CAT! We are talking about early to pre-1970’s like emissions without a CAT even if the ICE’s are extremely small. They also have huge Cd’s. Higher then most Trucks and SUV’s in fact. I remember reading somewhere that the Cd of the average rider (not in a tuck) is somewhere around .50! Weather and temp extremes suck as anyone that has been caught in a cold rain, driven in below freezing temps, and or been stuck in miles long traffic jams in 100 + temps in full leathers and a full face can attest. I have and none of those experiences were pleasurable in the least. A 5 - 6 gallon tank even at 80 mpg will only get you out 480 miles. I don’t remember the last time I was limited to just 480 miles but it was a very long time ago I am sure. Another huge disadvantage is that I lost my CBR600F in a hit and run collision with a 14-year old drunk making an illegal left hand turn in a stolen car and that is probably the #1 reason I don’t own one today The fact that the ICE’s of most bikes are tuned for absolute performance with total disregard to FE leads me to believe most are probably a poor replacement if the FE has not improved much between my late 80’s CBR and that of today. There is one bike in the RHMDB (Kawasaki ZRX-1200) and it isn’t doing so hot although if you read Challenger1’s notes, I think you can see why 36.7 mpg is in the offing … I wonder if you placed the Honda hybrid ICE wizards and the Honda motorcycle wizards into the same room that they could not come up with a workable hybrid bike that would wow all of us here? Maybe a 100 cc ICE with an SULEV-II rating, the Insight’s pack although the smaller one from the upcoming HCH, a 3mode i-VTEC, < 300 #’s, excellent handling and performance (0 - 60 in < 8 seconds), and of course it must have a rice rockets good looks

___If the average rider were to drop down to a 125 - 175 cc based bike with all the latest emissions control HW (if they can make something like that?) and drove it like we drive our hybrids and non-hybrids, I wouldn’t doubt that 150 + mpg would be easily achievable day in and day out year round. I will do some searching on that today to see if there are bikes that routinely achieve that kind of FE and I am not talking about Mopeds either.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

Hi All:

___That didn’t take long … The most FE mass-produced bike appears to be the moped like 50 cc Honda SuperCub? At least that is all I saw in the 5 minutes I Google’d and hour or so that I read … A small POS really but it has achieved a 305 mpg at a steady 30 km/hr. To slow a vehicle and to slow a speed to be practical for the rest of us. I read of a Ninja 250 rider receiving in the low 70’s with his smaller ICE’e equipped Rice Rocket. It looks cool too I also read of many receiving between 35 and 60 mpg over a range of different style of bikes. There was one Motorcycle FE blog where most riders were looking for increased FE and range. I can only wonder where that discussion came from? $2.50 + /gallon might have something to do with it? Many do not follow the emissions regs like we do here and were making statements that make 0 sense but at least their heart was in the right place. It sure looks like there is room for massive improvement in the FE department of the bikes and I bet we start to see them as a pure marketing tool.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

taken from http://www.newjerseygasprices.com/Fo...age_no=1&FAV=N

2004 Prius emissions:
102 g/km CO2 (carbon dioxide)
.02 g/km HC (hydrocarbons)
.03 g/km NOx (nitric oxides)

Excerpted from Tougher Emissions Standards for Street Motorcycles
- - - - - -
Aprilia "RSV Mille R" - 1.4 g/km HC - Fuel Injection
BMW "R1200C" - 0.7 g/km HC - CAT plus Fuel Injection
Harley-Davidson "SofTail" - 1.5 g/km HC - Carburetor
Honda "Valkyrie" - 1.9 g/km HC - Carburetor
Suzuki "Hayabusa" - 1.1 g/km HC - Fuel Injection
Triumph "Sprint RS" - 2.0 g/km HC - Fuel Injection
URAL "Patrol" - 0.9 g/km HC - Carburetor (Note: 649 cc)
- - - - - -

The average of this group is 1.35 g/km HC - that's 66 times more than
Prius. The best one in the group, the BMW, emits 34 times more HC than
the Prius. The Prius emits 3% of what the best cycle in the group can
achieve or about 1.5% of the average of this sample group of
motorcycles.

Most people are happy with 40-50 MPG on a motorcycle. I think the main reason is that they are optimized for power output with huge engines for the weight while at the same time typically having very little, if any emission control equipment. If they can come up with a hybrid bike that can still have plenty of power (electric boost) while maintaining high FE and low emissions that would do a lot to improve air quality and FE, but even just the more basic emissions equipment should be mandatory.

2001 Prius Photos       2005 Prius Photos
1992 Mitsubishi Delica Diesel-WVO Hybrid Photos

Two friends of mine had Ninja 250's for a while. They said they'd typically get 45-50mpg. One of the things you have to realize is that in addition to being carb'd, and thus usually set up to run a bit rich anyway, that motor is TINY and although it's a 6-speed, it's geared such that the bike turns something like 7000rpm at 75mph. You lose a lot of the benefits of having a small engnie if you're spinning it at a million miles an hour. My boss has a Harley and says it gets mid 30's typically. That's with a 1300cc or something motor; roughly the same displacement as a Civic Hybrid, but only weighing 700 pounds or so.

Thank you for the info everybody!

My friend at the gym has a small pickup truck. If a Ninja 240 gets 40mpg, that would be a quantium leap, although I'm temped to suggest a used Volkwagen. My concern is part of her communte is over the Lake Lewisville bridge, which is frequently in the traffic reports with an accident.

I've had an eye-opener on motorcycles on what they can and can't do.

61.5mpg lifetime - 82mpg in recent months

Best Run >
www.cleanmpg.com

"fanatic" is what the lazy call the dedicated

Bikes are definitely not enviromentally sound machines. Like it has been said, most are tuned to optimize every last cc for power, not economy, or emissions. Just think how easy getting through traffic would be if every SUV you saw with one person in it, was just a motorcycle? The main reason I don't use my bike is helmet head. It would be great if I wouldn't have to worry about how my hair looks for work. Trying to get it from looking like I just woke up is a pain in the butt.

I prefer dollars versus HOV lane usage. HOV privileges is a vague concept that affects a few, but not the majority. Money is something people can understand.


- Give cars over 60 mpg $300 tax credit each year
- Give cars 50-59 mpg $200 tax credit each year
- Give cars 40-49 mpg $100 tax credit
- Give cars 30-39 mpg $0
- Give cars 20-29 mpg a $100 "clean the air" annual tax
- Give cars 10-19 mpg a $200 "clean the air" annual tax

Direct the collected monies to the EPA, to pay the bills.

troy

I like the dollar idea!

To help make HOV lanes work as intended, I wish there were cameras that could 100% tell there was a single-occupant vehicle, then activate in that lane a tire shredding device. I'd gladly pass on the single-passgener hybrid law if this could ever be done...

61.5mpg lifetime - 82mpg in recent months

Best Run >
www.cleanmpg.com

"fanatic" is what the lazy call the dedicated

In Northern Virginia, the HOV lanes are only HOV during rush hour.

Other times, you're free to use them even if you're driving alone. I think that's a good deal.

troy