This might be a good guide for new hybrid buyers.

For years, some people have avoided cars with expensive stereos because it's assumed it's a 20-something guy that races the car a lot. The lifetime MPG display would seem to be a far more accurate indicator of potential abuse, although not completely foolproof (it can be reset).

For a 5-speed Insight, I would not touch one with a lifetime MPG under 45, probably even 50. Assuming it was in good working order, 50mpg is almost certainly agressive driving, severe stop-and-go, very short trips, or freezing weather. I have to work to get it down to 45mpg if I'm not gridlocked in traffic. The few times I hear 5-speed Insights with lifetime MPG under 45, I can't help but to believe it's a lemon or been victim of very abusive driving.

In addition to the typical acceleratoin of tire and suspension wear, abusive driving on hybrids will shorten the battery pack. I'd suspect the O2 sensor as well.

So hybrid drivers, what do you consider the "abuse zone" on:

• 5-speed Insight - 45, maybe 50
• CVT Insight
• pre 2006 Civic
• 2006 Civic
• Accord
• Prius I
• Prius II
• Ford Escape
• Toyota Highlander
• Lexus rx400
• other hybrids

61.5mpg lifetime - 82mpg in recent months

Best Run >
www.cleanmpg.com

"fanatic" is what the lazy call the dedicated

Hi Delta_Flyer:

___I purchased mine with something like a 79.x lmpg from a SD. Native with just 28,000 + miles. She was in perfect condition just like her new owners received

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes

My Insight, purchased just this August, had a lmpg of 45.1 mpg. Even having come from a Suburban Chicago dweller who commuted into the city everyday, and didn't know much about the car (got it for a great price because of this) that seemed pretty low. I saw how he treated his replacement car, a very sporty Toyota Matrix, so I could understand the low numbers on the Insight. The rear suspension did in fact, wear out soon. Fortunately HondaCare took care of that (otherwise a $400 job done for free) and the tires on the car were high quality, non-LRRs, I doubt the OEMs lasted long. At least they handle extremely well in snow and are very quiet compared to the stock LRRs. The pack seems in great shape. There have been only a few recals and the gauge stays at about 18 bars most of the time. Right now, I'm getting in the low 50's, but that's because I myself have a short trip in sub-freezing weather. I just got an engine block heater installed ($84 total) and have the warm air mod on currently. Now the fun is in raising the LMPG up over 50, then 55, then 60 and so on.

-Justin Fons
www.MilwaukeeHybridGroup.com

I think below 34mpg in an HCH I.

My hydroponics experiment

You ever notice how hard it is to lip read cartoon characters?
"Crazy is what the sane call Delta Flyer"

Good thread Delta Flyer. I am too new to the hybrid world to have much experience. As a guess with a Prius HSD I would say 45 mpg, for sure 40 mpg in summer. At my dealership's new owner meeting there was one other Prius HSD owner. She was getting 47 mpg and very close to being very unhappy. She didn't give me a chance to offer any suggestions (not that I had many). I suspect she was driving it like a normal car (fast starts - no gliding - flow of traffic, which in the Dallas area is 10+ over the speed limit wherever you drive).

Alden Bowles
2005 Toyota Prius II HSD

there is no lmpg display in the HAH...tripA/B only. Since I don't have navi, A keeps my tank average, reset every fillup, B gives me that day's (actually that commute segment), reset each trip.

Seems like you'd need to get either a very naive owner who doesn't know about trip B, or one who is on their honor to have never reset it/ kept true records for every tank.

Do you guys all have another mode buried in the navi?

Hi GoNavy:

___I have never seen or heard about it so I bet there is nothing saved over time unfortunately Boy would I love to have a Trip A/B in my non-hybrid because although the Instantaneous and Averaging FCD’s are great, what can you do when you are 800 miles into a tank and your poor or great driving methods over that particular segment aren’t doing squat to the averaging other then making you calculate the possibilities in your head?

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes

Bought my "used" 2004 manual tranny HCH when it had 4822 miles on it, and it was at 34.4 lifetime. It had been purchased new the first time 4 months before. I have no idea if it was a fleet car, a dealer loaner, or what, but someone who had only achieved 34.4 in the car obviously did not care about fuel economy.