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04-25-2008, 06:15 AM
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Prius geek
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Real Name: Curt
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Hybrids: '04 Prius
Posts: 253
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Re: Who will be the GREENEST President?
EVs are so much more efficient than burning ANY fuel in a car! Why are we screwing around with combustion to move us when the math and the numbers favor electric transport?
Why can't we as the top of the food chain do the right thing? Are we really as smart as we think we are? C'mon already. Plug me in. Burning crap to move me around is so last century. The tech and know-how WAS here over 10 years ago. Apparently, not enough people benifitted (follow the money, the subsidies, the special interests, the corporate greed, etc.)
The system is broken and we the people need to step up and say plug me in to the most efficient mode of transport...electricity.
Enough already. Are ANY of our elected officials willing to do this? I am losing hope that we won't abandon a losing horse (ICE engines), until it's too late. I think our offspring will be none too pleased in the near future.
'04 Seaside Pearl #7. Fumoto oil drain, mudflaps, rear bumper scuff protector & rear warn system, compass mirror, EV mode button, 8" subwoofer in right rear cubby & 6" subs under seats, power lumbar in the front seats, Coastaletech hitch w/ Aspen bike/snowboard rack. iPod2car, 2 amps, Alpine component speakers, and DVD video, solid 47 MPG @ 70000 miles.
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04-25-2008, 06:45 AM
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PHEV wanter
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Real Name: Ken Grubb
Location: Puyallup, WA
Hybrids: None, yet
Posts: 60
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Re: Who will be the GREENEST President?
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenG
The reality is that we NEED to be paying $7/gallon.
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I have to disagree. The consumer is already demanding better, more fuel efficient cars. Hybrid sales numbers speak to that.
Higher prices will only further hurt the consumer and the economy. We absolutely need regulation, and it needs to be aggressive. CAFE numbers need to come up, sooner, not later. But I think we need to go much further, and a variety of options are possible.
We the consumer can lean on our elected representatives to lean on the car makers. Congress holds hearings on everything else. Hold a hearing on something VERY substantive.
Tell Detroit, look, under Partnership for a New Generation of Vehicles in the 90s, the American taxpayer spent over a billion dollars giving Detroit access to a whole lot of research info from federal agencies and labs. 70-80 MPG concepts were put forth by the Big Three. Precept, Prodigy, ESX-3. Where has the rubber met the road? Japanese hybrids average MPG kicks the snot outta American hybrids, and the number of offerings is incredibly thin. Without government funding, Japan is dominating this market. What have you, Detroit, done for the American consumer? Mild hybrids that boost highway mileage by a few MPG ain't gonna cut it. Obviously long term development should continue, but shorter term Detroit could be encouraged through tax incentives to license Toyota's technology and get something to market. Detroit needs to hear the message of start doing something now, or else.
In addition to CAFE standards, introduce "Second Tier" CAFE standards. If a car maker's fleet, beats existing CAFE numbers of 27.5 MPG, and say hits something like 50 to 60 MPG, tax incentives. This might encourage PHEV only fleets of vehicles. Renew, extend and increase the EV tax credit.
We have to make it very economically attractive for manufacturers to build PHEVs and EVs. PHEVs need to be encouraged, which will get people plugging in, but the financial encouragement for EVs needs to be even stronger. Message needs to be it's good to build and buy HEVs, better to build and buy PHEVs, best to build and buy EVs.
If Detroit wants to remain oil pimps, let 'em. The American consumer is ready and willing to abandon them. Just give us the choices by encouraging them to come to market.
Detroit and Big Oil have a lot of friends in Congress. It will be a fight. But by encouraging other good behavior (building PHEVs and EVs), the bad behavior (bigger, larger ICEs) will eventually start to rust on dealer lots if the Big Three don't change.
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04-26-2008, 02:47 PM
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Active Enthusiast
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Hybrids: 2008 Escape Hybrid
Posts: 162
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Re: Who will be the GREENEST President?
There is a story in the Friday Wall Street Journal. Over half the increase in average gas mileage over the last 20 years has been negated by increased number of miles driven per car. Why? Because until the last year there has been no inflation adjusted increase in the cost of gasoline. Basic economics dictate that we can have low gas prices or low gas consumption, but not both.
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04-26-2008, 04:18 PM
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9 cents a mile
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Real Name: Mike
Location: Sacramento
Hybrids: 2008 Civic
Posts: 35
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Re: Who will be the GREENEST President?
I'm for fewer government regulations, not more. Let the market place work. With higher gas prices comes demand for more efficient cars. Automakers will figure that out or go out of business. You don't need pinheads in the gov't telling them what to make. I want the option of being able to buy high horsepower, fun cars AS WELL AS high mileage practical cars.
2008 Galaxy Gray Honda Civic Hybrid
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04-28-2008, 11:38 AM
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Prius geek
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Real Name: Curt
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Hybrids: '04 Prius
Posts: 253
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Re: Who will be the GREENEST President?
What about all the safety items that were mandated by federal regulations? I feel a bit safer that car-makers were forced to make my car safer.
How does a federal government bail-out of a car-maker that won't adapt to the 'market' flesh out? I'm not saying this correctly...
I see certain domestic car-maker(s) behind the efficiency curve we are seeing today, compared to offerings from Japan. So, instead of figuring out how to make and sell an efficient, competing car, the 'market' ignores them and they go belly up...but apparently it's not good for the 'market' in the Us for domestic car companies to do so, so the feds pitch in (meaning you and me and our taxes) to keep them afloat. Is that the 'market' at work? Or is it a bit flawed?
Also, I see the decisions of many to affect my life, even though it's a freedom to choose thing. I don't choose second-hand smoke, someone else decided for me, not concerned that their decision to smoke does affect everyone. High-cost of helath care? Could it be all those freedoms to choose a non-healthy lifestyle affects my premiums?
Big picture here is important. regulations and laws for the good of all. We all share the planet...some like to share, others don't. Not an easy task to get everyone on the same page, I'll admit.
'04 Seaside Pearl #7. Fumoto oil drain, mudflaps, rear bumper scuff protector & rear warn system, compass mirror, EV mode button, 8" subwoofer in right rear cubby & 6" subs under seats, power lumbar in the front seats, Coastaletech hitch w/ Aspen bike/snowboard rack. iPod2car, 2 amps, Alpine component speakers, and DVD video, solid 47 MPG @ 70000 miles.
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04-28-2008, 11:41 AM
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PHEV wanter
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Real Name: Ken Grubb
Location: Puyallup, WA
Hybrids: None, yet
Posts: 60
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Re: Who will be the GREENEST President?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikesan
I'm for fewer government regulations, not more. Let the market place work.
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So no more auto industry subsidies, like $100K in tax credits for a Hummer?
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04-28-2008, 04:33 PM
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Pragmatist
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Real Name: Steve Hansen
Location: South Florida
Hybrids: Camry
Posts: 93
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Re: Who will be the GREENEST President?
Republican Platform: To hell with the environment. How can we maximize profits?
Clinton campaign: Say nice things about environment. Follow the money.
Obama campaign: Don't say anything concrete enough to piss anybody off.
I don't think there is a whit worth of difference between Clinton and McCain. Both are confirmed "free traders", who will do or say just about anything to increase corporate profits. Both spent most of the last 20 years pandering to corporations. Neither gives a **** about anything but money.
I'm not sure about Obama. There just might be an honest thought, there.
But, considering that both McCain and Clinton are just about as "green" as RoundUp (that kills anything that grows), I think we can safely say that Obama is by far the "greenest". Not because he is so green, but because both opponents are so extremely anti-green.
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04-30-2008, 03:52 PM
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9 cents a mile
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Real Name: Mike
Location: Sacramento
Hybrids: 2008 Civic
Posts: 35
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Re: Who will be the GREENEST President?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kengrubb
So no more auto industry subsidies, like $100K in tax credits for a Hummer?
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$100,000 tax credit for a Hummer? Maybe the H1. What about tax credits on Hybrids? People here seem to like them. I'll be sure to claim mine, but I'd have bought the car without it and I think it's bad policy to incentivize personal vehicles. Work vehicles are a different story...
As for the safety features. It's hard to argue against safety, but I think you'd find that successful companies will give people what they want. Those that don't will fade away.
2008 Galaxy Gray Honda Civic Hybrid
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05-01-2008, 07:23 AM
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PHEV wanter
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Real Name: Ken Grubb
Location: Puyallup, WA
Hybrids: None, yet
Posts: 60
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Re: Who will be the GREENEST President?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikesan
$100,000 tax credit for a Hummer? Maybe the H1.
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I'm not sure, but perhaps I was being far too subtle. I'm not advocating a $100K tax credit for Hummers. It's already been done. 2003 Jobs and Growth Act.
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05-01-2008, 07:35 PM
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Enthusiast
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Real Name: Cal
Hybrids: Honda Civic Hybrid
Posts: 9
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Re: Who will be the GREENEST President?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveHansen
<snip>
But, considering that both McCain and Clinton are just about as "green" as RoundUp, I think we can safely say that Obama is by far the "greenest". Not because he is so green, but because both opponents are so extremely anti-green.
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I agree and thats the way I'm voting. (1 of several reasons)
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