Sorry, but I have to disagree with some of you that think raising the CAFE will not be effective. The primary reason (in my view) Toyota developed the Prius was because CARB (California Air Resources Board) mandated air quality standards for cars sold in California in the '90s. Toyota ran with it. Without CARB there would probably be no Prius at all. I don't think raising the CAFE should be the only thing done but that is probably for another post. And yes Toyota is currently fighting the higher CAFE standard tooth and nail as part of the Auto Alliance (GM and Ford belong too I think), so they are being a typical old school auto manufacturer from a business stand point. The Dallas Morning News printed an article today about how the Auto Alliance is now agreeing to 35 mpg but trying to delay full implementation from 2019 to 2022.

Alden Bowles
2005 Toyota Prius II HSD

Don't forget that Congress is the biggest player in the Auto Alliance. Those crooks simply use the threat of increased CAFE standards to extort more bribes .... oops, I mean "campaign contributions" .... from the car company lobbyists.

When that bribe money was flowing through the 80s and 90s, CAFE remained stagnant. Now it MIGHT increase by 7 mpg over 15 years. So what? Whatever Congress says is a lie. Whatever Congress does is a scam.

The only thing that will ever bring about fuel efficiency is consumer demand, and the only thing that will increase consumer demand is a high price for gasoline. If gas goes to $5 per gallon, the Auto Alliance will release super-efficient cars so fast it'll make everyone's head spin.

And it looks like we're on the way there -- oil prices closed over $78/bbl today. Here's hoping the price sees triple digits soon!

Close. I personally am fixed on a Prius drive train in a Corolla -- every man's car. But it will never happen until Toyota has converted everthing else.

It is the ignorant among us that will eventually destroy us all.

Here, here!
I think a lot of energy resources are being used to make high performance cars a tiny bit more fuel efficient. You could put this technology into the Yaris (if they could) it would get amazing gas mileage. (I think this is what Honda is thinking about anyway, and the Honda system may be more amenable to it.) Still it seems the goals of hybrid technology seem to be used more to get the most bang off performance cars rather than to get the most mileage off mpg cars.

--des

ThE biggest hurdle right now is the price of adding the hybrid components to the vehicle.
They won't add $4000 or more of hybrid components to a $15000 vehicle. This is simple economics, as there would be (relatively) few buyers. It doesn't make financial sense for a manufacturer to spend millions on research/design/manufacture only to sell a few. Honda's Insight was more of a "learn as you go" research project that allowed them to collect real-world data. I doubt Honda made any NET profit from the Insight's production run. Now that it is finished, the Civic is as close as we're likely to see to having that happen until the hybrid-component pricing is more palatable in a less-expensive vehicle.
Larger vehicles are generally more expensive (and more easily justifiably so). The prohibitive costs of the hybrid components can be absorbed better in a $25000+ vehicle than in a $15000 one.
I'm just happy they're trying to get hybrids in the marketplace. Toyota is doing the best job of providing a variety of hybrid choices. The more, the merrier. The real-world data alone is priceless. The growing acceptance factor is priceless. The more there are, the more likely the component costs will shrink. Often, less fuel will be used when someone chooses a hybrid model (vs. what they would've otherwise chosen). This is all good, right?

Steve

STOP terrorism - Drive a HYBRID

Vehicles:
350 miles a week ------------ 2006 HCH II, Magnetic Pearl, w/NAVI (born on May 25, 2006)
350 miles a month ---------- 2003 Mazda Tribute ES-V6
350 miles a year (for now) - 1986 Mercedes 560SL

I'm new to the forum but the basics is this - Detroit (and whoever they "contract" to building their "American" cars these days) is blind to the public, the economy, the environment, and anything that doesn't let them do exactly what they want to do and when they want to do it.

FACT - They (the big three) have known EXACTLY how to build more efficient vehicles in ANY category for at least 40 years - LONG before the original oil embargo that threatened our very way of life in the early 70's.

FACT - They have known that it was only a matter of time before people got smart enough to see what was really going on in their beady little brains. The marketing and push for bigger, better, faster was lost on some of us.

I.E. Those of us that are slightly older than "dumb" (whatever age that may cease to occur) know that there are far better ways to improve a vehicle than to sell you a new tailfin on last years car, and most of us haven't fallen for that in the last 30 years. So now it's selling you an outdated, underperforming powertrain - only to improve it slightly each year, which also devaluates last years model like crazy. Who cares about trade-in value, the dealer will "take care" of you on that issue.

Am I biased? Yes, but not by financial interests (hello Washignton DC) - I'm biased with a responsibility to the environment and the future generations of this planet. I do not want to start a conversation with my grandchildren someday with, "Back when the air was safe to breathe...."

DEMAND to get something for your dollar at the pump - let those wanna-be a rich person and those "thousand-aire's" waste their time and their money on taxes until we get a means of controlling their ignorance - it will eventually occur.

Me? I haven't bought into the million moving part hybrid as an answer to all our fuel woes - but more on that later. All my mileage cars in the last 15 years (37 here) have gotten very, very impressive mileage and run impeccably well (aka clean). I've finally decided to speak out and hopefully it will be well-received. If not? I've often been the bearer of bad news and I'm used to being the shot-at messenger :-) FYI I drive a 2005 Scion XA and a 2005 Honda CR-V SE which both perform VERY well in the MPG department.

I think GM has the capacity to "change gears" since they developed three different hybrid systems (two of which are in actual production, and the third could hit the streets in 3-5 years). Ford doesn't seem to be offering anything new other than voice-operated MP3 players.

The big three American auto makers HAVE developed more fuel efficient automobile engines and they have sold millions of them over the past nearly twenty-five years.

It's important to keep in mind that "efficiency" is a double edged sword. Increased efficiency can translate into increased gas mileage/fuel economy. OR, it can be applied to generating more power from the same amount of fuel used (additionally, this may be combined with lighter weight power plants).

Detroit has been making more efficient engines since the Arab oil embargo of 1974. During the late seventies and into the eighties Detroit's gasoline power plants became lighter and more powerful while using essentially the same amount of gas as before (or less). Then in the nineties, this engine technology was utilized in SUVs. These vehicles themselves being heavier, devolved into gas hogs due to their increased weight.

All of this was in response to consumer demand which was in turn driven by very low prices for gasoline during this same period.

This is an insidious trend. Increases in power plant efficiency are canceled out by consumer demand that the increase in engine efficiency be used to provide more power; more power to move heavier vehicles FASTER.
This explains why even the Japanese introduced only two or three "fuel economy" hybrids, followed very quickly by something like a dozen "muscle" hybrids.

"First, they have a lot of corporate "know-how" in the drivetrains and other components used in rear-wheel drive trucks and cars, so they are good at building those types of vehicles. They also have a huge legacy pipeline of parts, suppliers and methods associated with those vehicles. Do not underestimate how important this is to logistics and manufacturing efficiencies. Conversely, they are not particularly good at building high-quality, small, front-drive cars - this is a holdover from the days when a compact was for those who could not afford a bigger car. They have a huge learning curve here and not much time, so they keep stalling, even though it just delays the inevitable."

Give me a break! Have you ever been to Europe or heard about GM Opel or the Ford Ka? The reason for the cars made here is the market. America travels on highways and no matter what legislation is passed people will still want to wrap their family in a big hunk of steel.

Also I don't understand the desire for people to raise their own taxes. Unless you are an heir, you work hard for your money. The Govt doesn't earn your money. Why would you insist on giving them more?

JG

As has been pointed out in the above posts, Detroit does know how to build much more fuel efficient cars (witness the recent proliferation of cars like the Ford Focus and others that get gas mileage in the low 30s). But they choose not to build these cars. There is a cultural mindset in Detroit (and in the minds of many consumers as well) that smaller, fuel efficient cars are for LOSERS. One is supposed to aspire to drive a big car like a Buick, or better, a Lincoln or Cadillac. "Little" cars are for losers. And fretting about how much it costs to fill the gas tank is also a worry for LOSERS.

Detroit has built little cars appropriately designed for losers; the Ford "exploding gas tank" Pinto, the Chevy "pot metal engine block" Vega, the AMC Pacer, the Chevy Chevette. These were some of the very worst cars to ever curse the American road.

Instead of wasting time on losers, Detroit has chosen to concentrate on building more profitable model lines which include bigger cars and SUVs. They have ceded "loserville" to the Japanese and Europeans.

I don't have much hope that this arrogant mindset will ever change. Detroit has been driven very close to bankruptcy and extinction and they still show little enthusiasm for building GOOD, fuel efficient cars.