Why does a Toyota Camry Hybrid get a bigger tax credit than a Honda Civic? - GreenHybrid

mickster · #1 (**permalink**) 06-06-2006, 08:43 AM

The Honda Civic has better emissions and gas mileage but only gets a $2,100 credit vs. the Camry's $2,600 credit and Prius' $3,150 tax credit!

What gives?

Can someone explain this to me??

Michael

AnOldHouse · #2 (**permalink**) 06-06-2006, 09:14 AM

It has to do with the percentage of improvement in the same weight class over 2002 models.

The Camry Hybrid is a much heavier car than the Civic Hybrid, but, it made greater improvements in gas mileage and emmissions over the benchmark for its weight class.

mickster · #3 (**permalink**) 06-06-2006, 09:26 AM

Yup-just got off the phone with Honda in Torrance.

Apparently this measurement method was pushed by Toyota, America.

The formula is City mileage (not highway) and its improvement in the weight/size class overall.

Because the Civic is a compact, it is compared to all compacts only.

The Accord gets compared to the mid-sized.

The Ford Escape to other SUV's.

Ditto the Highlander.

More info here:

http://aceee.org/transportation/hybtaxcred.htm

mickster · #4 (**permalink**) 06-06-2006, 09:29 AM

Maybe this thread should be moved to the main board!

lakedude · #5 (**permalink**) 06-06-2006, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mickster

Maybe this thread should be moved to the main board!

done

blinkard · #6 (**permalink**) 06-06-2006, 12:58 PM

I'm far more upset about the Camry Hybrid having a .27 coefficient of drag, while my HCH2 has .28. It's not fair. Sure, my frontal area is probably a bit lower, so my total drag may be less, but it's the principle of the matter.

But back to the topic...the Camry costs $1700 more than the HCH2, so a $500 credit doesn't really bother me, assuming the credit was intended to offset the "hybrid premium," rather than to induce people to buy more efficient cars.

It's thinking like that that worries me about Bush's request that he be allowed to set economy standards for each weight class separately. It does nothing to push people to moving into a lower weight class.

merigayle · #7 (**permalink**) 06-06-2006, 01:11 PM

I believe the Insight Manual Transmission no longer get ANY tax credit-- the car get a million miles a gallon (well, 70+) and no tax credit. That should be more alarming. Good thing I got the CVT! (I believe it has to do with the emissions on teh 5spd Insight.....)

mickster · #8 (**permalink**) 06-06-2006, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blinkard

I'm far more upset about the Camry Hybrid having a .27 coefficient of drag, while my HCH2 has .28. It's not fair. Sure, my frontal area is probably a bit lower, so my total drag may be less, but it's the principle of the matter.

But back to the topic...the Camry costs $1700 more than the HCH2, so a $500 credit doesn't really bother me, assuming the credit was intended to offset the "hybrid premium," rather than to induce people to buy more efficient cars.

It's thinking like that that worries me about Bush's request that he be allowed to set economy standards for each weight class separately. It does nothing to push people to moving into a lower weight class.

The drag issue has probably as much to do with the fact that the Camry is 1 year younger (in design terms) and has greater surface area to work with to acheive a Cd of .27 vs. the Civic's .28. When you can stretch the skin further, you can lower the Cd. Look at the infiniti G35, not only did they manage a 0.27-0.28 Cd, but with the optional (and functional) ground effects, you can get the car to 0 lift-a rather amazing feat for a car of its size, weight and ground clearance.

Now getting back to Bush-agreed. But also take the other side of the argument-there are people and businesses that need an SUV (think family of five with 3 teenagers or a local contractor or salesman with lots of samples). For those that actually have the need, I'd rather have them get an Escape or Marnier Hybrid or Toyota Highlander Hybrid or Lexus R400h than the equivalent non-Hybrid version. They should get some incentive.

But you can see how it is clearly biased to the Toyota line; of course if Honda would get off their kiesters and get a CR-V, Pilot, Ridgeline, Acura MDX or RDX Hybrid on the market, I'd be first in line!!

Michael

AnOldHouse · #9 (**permalink**) 06-06-2006, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mickster

But you can see how it is clearly biased to the Toyota line

Not when you factor in the phase out provisions considering that Toyota has by far the highest production levels, the trigger of 60K US-delivered Toyota hybrids having been shipped YTD in May and therefore the full tax credit now good for deliveries only through September 30, 2006.

finman · #10 (**permalink**) 06-06-2006, 01:54 PM

Yet another argument for HSD being the benchmark for hybrid tech. Adaptable to many differently sized vehicles and for the best overall efficiency and emissions improvement.