I hope I'm not out of line by starting a new thread on my first post. I've been lurking for a while and find the information here almost overwhelming.

I am still deciding which hybrid to buy and just want to know why you people have decided on the Civic. It seems like many of the HCH owners are disappointed with their mileage and only getting 35-40mpg which is barely better than my '98 Corolla. All things being equal (even price) it seems like the Prius is just a superior car. I plan to drive both this weekend and will know more then but I want to hear from you people.
What I like about the Civic is the fact that it doesn't look like a space ship, it's available without a wait and it's a Honda. What I don't like is the weak warranty (Does Honda offer an extended warranty on this car?), the lack of fold down seats and the inferior mileage.
Thanks in advance for any input.
I look forward to your responses.

Chris

I chose the HCH because it looks more like a normal car, there was no wait, and I've read the back window on the Prius can be hard to see out of when backing up. You can get an extended warranty; and the IMA system has an 8 yr/80,000 mile warranty.

Greg

'04Civic Hybrid

There are quite a few reasons why choose Civic.
I don't want to discredit Prius, because that is also a good quality car.
Here are only a few reasons:

*As you mentoned it is based on a popular ICE body.
It is normal inside and out.
*The price. Civic comes standard with all the available options.
(Minus baseball caps and t-shirts)
There are no additional "Packages" to buy. It already comes loaded.
*This is the first "Normal" hybrid car that Honda has, and it seems that
they really took alot of time to make it very beautiful.
*No waiting list.
*If the electronic half should fail you can still drive the car.
*Dual trip meters
*I beleive HCH is a more "hands on, manual" car which gives me more control.
*5-speed transmission is available.
*Warranty:
Honda standard is 3yr/36K on the drive train (Including the main Assist components) and 75K on the battery.
Several extended warranties are available.
I bought the best extended warranty and it covers 7yr/100k bumper to bumper and 100K on the battery. (Or is it 150K? )

We have a few Civics listed that are getting very low MPG.
All these are on the first tankful, not really a fair comparison.
I got upper 30's on my first two tankfuls.
Personally I drive for max MPG and get 58-63MPG per trip, and 56MPG per tank.
For a more accurate comparison to "Normal" driving I can lock in cruise control and get about the EPA list.
However I won't get near the EPA est on the 30psi F/R tire pressure recommended by Honda.
Even at 7,500 miles I don't think my car is completely broke in yet.
The highest MPG numbers are all with the Honda IMA system.

There are other features with HCH which either isn't avaiable with other cars, or are available with additional cost. Some features other cars have aren't available on the HCH. (Like touch screen and rear wiper etc)

If you can test drive a Prius then please let us know how the two "measures up" in your case!

Steve

PS
Wh-oh yea!
Today the weather finally cleared into a bright 81 degree day with no wind.
beat my old daily commute record of 63.4 and just landed at 64.3MPG!
I think I'll arrange a link to the FCD photo later this eve...

Efficient drivers do it better.
1003 miles a tank personal record. 74MPG calculated. HCH1 CVT

Hi Bohous:

___There is a lot of great things about the new 04 Prius over and above the HCH and the older Insight of course but handling is not one of them. A quick scan at the car magazine skid pad and slalom numbers should tell you all you need to know … I am a bit Honda Hybrid biased however so do the research and you should end up with the best automobile that fits your particular needs, not ours.

___Good Luck with whichever Hybrid you decide to purchase. There are some new Hybrid’s coming out this fall that you may want to wait for as well …

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

Thanks everybody. Good stuff here. I have also heard that the Civic is a tighter handling car which is appealing. Another concern I have is the difference is warm and cold temp and its effect on mpg. I live in New England so have to deal with a longer cold season than many of you. Does one handle cold weather better than the other? Will the engine actually "warm" on cold morings if I start it up 10 minutes before driving?
Sorry to bombard you with all these questions. I just trust owners more than salesmen if you klnow what I mean

Hi Bohous:

___I don’t know how far up in New England you live but I am located half way between Chicago, IL. and Milwaukee, WI. It has been known to get below freezing for a number of days in the winter here too

___Anyway, I don’t let my Insight warm up at idle in the drive as it is just wasting fuel imho. She warms up while idling through the subdivision and through the back of a mall on the way to the Interstate with me in it. I have a technique for this but it may only work with sticks or maybe even just a 5-speed Insight for all I know??? Anyway, cold short trips are murderous on mileage no matter the automobile. There simply isn’t a way to get around it other then blunt the cold start to heat up with a Block heater (I have one on order at this very moment for next fall/winter) or having it kept in the garage w/ a block heater. Even with that piece of HW, cold temps give cold AIT’s (Air intake temperatures) and poor fuel/air mixing so your fuel economy is being pummeled from that … Colder oil in the sump is more viscous which is bad. Lower overall coolant temps take too much heat from the block which is too cold to begin with … It is a real viscous cycle and even those of us that use warm air mods can only help our little wonders only so much in really cold temperatures. Just be thankful you don’t live in the upper regions of Canada or Alaska I guess?

___In my short time behind the wheel of the Insight w/ warm air mods installed, I usually have decent heat output ~ 2 miles out in 32 degree F temps and maybe 4 - 5 miles out in 0 degree temps. I would suspect a HCH or Prius to do much better given the larger amount of fuel consumed and/or the 04 Prius warm bottle coolant (thermos). And a tip to go along with that … If it is lets say 32 + degrees, I don’t use the heat at all. I just continue to wear my jacket and gloves while cruising down the road … If its 0, I set the Auto climate at 61 degrees/ Econ - No A/C and maintain the minimum. Before I come to a stop, I shut down all climate controls so as to enable Autostop far below where it would be available normally. I tend to push the mileage envelope and I doubt you want to go this far

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

Hi
In 28 degree weather last Febrary the HCH temp guage reached half (Normal) after 3 miles. Not sure if it is just me but I didn't notice any difference in the car at that time.
Thanks for the cold heater tip...

However at about 2 miles I did note a fairly sudden increase in efficiency: that is the car would roll on a flat surface and not loose any MPG at a given point on the FCD, where minutes ago it would have slowed down.
Noticed another gain in efficiency after 5 miles.
My only hypothesis is that it takes this time for the heat to "soak through", mabe bearings turn a little easier then, etc.
But also at that time my car only had perhaps 1K miles on it.

As an ex-Minnesotan,
Way down here in Hot Atlanta things just don't cool down quite so much!

Steve

Efficient drivers do it better.
1003 miles a tank personal record. 74MPG calculated. HCH1 CVT

I bought my HCH because I could get it quickly and BELOW MSRP. Either one is better than a gas hog which my wife drives...lol. In my case I am getting great mileage. The lowest so far is 45 and the highest is 54 so that is pretty much over the EPA, why I am getting this mileage is beyond me. I have stated that I take back roads to work, drive at or just below the speed limit, and yes I live near Houston so it's really really really flat. The temp here has been anywhere from 50 to 80 so that might also help the mileage. Happy Motoring Kevin

2004 silverblue 5 sp.

I hope I am not out of line offering another point of view here. I am new to this board as well. Anyway, I also live in New England and went with the Prius II after test driving the HCH. Here is what I found the main diverences to be.

Honda tries to hide the technology while Toyota tries to embrace it

the Honda handels a bit better

I haven't had any issues with handling or reliability this winter (I took delivery in Nov.)

I live in New england as well, and have been getting about 40-50 mpg durring the winter with four Nokia winter tires. I just got them off and expect my efficiency to jump by 10 mpg.

The toyota is quieter unless you are accelerating hard.

The toyota has better visibility (for me the extra little window added visibility not took it away)

The honda doesn't have fold down seats (this is what ultimatley led me to the prius, I need space).

They seem to have similar waranties, I bought an upgrade for $700 which extended the bumper to bumper.

The toyota has more options this is both a plus and a minus because you may not end you getting exactly what you want because of the next thing.

The toyota you will probably have to wait for. And there are rumors of dealers raising their prices due to demand.
so, That's that. Sorry if this is out of place, they are both wonderful cars.

Leko

leko,

Welcome to the forums! No opinion (unless obviously a disturbance to the community) is out of line Here, we embrace all points of view in an environment that includes owners of all hybrids and automobiles.

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