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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 04-20-2004, 07:26 PM
bohous bohous is offline
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First, thanks to all who responded. Very good stuff here.
Ok, here is my report after checking out both cars. I just went to a Honda dealer on Saturday to look at the HCH but not drive (I wanted my S.O. with me for the test drive). I was straight up with the salesman who approached me and I asked him why I might chose the Civic over the Prius. The answer. "What is a Prius?".
:blink:
Obviously I was talking to the wrong guy so I asked if they had a "hybrid" guy who could answer some questions etc. No dice. And this was one of the largest Honda dealers in Maine!
On Monday afternon I visited the only Toyota dealer that I could find in my area that had a Prius on hand for a test drive. We were greeted by the "Prius guy" who took us through the whole car and answered all of my questions with confidence.
Anyway without getting too into it I think Leko nailed it with this quote
Quote:
Honda tries to hide the technology while Toyota tries to embrace it
While I was initially turned off by the "space ship" like Prius I found I really liked the bells and whistles (the start button, funky shifter, screen display) but the two biggest selling points to me are the size and warranty. With the hatchback and fold down seats this is a car me and my fiance can grow into and it can even be used as a family car. As far as the warranty goes, I think both are 3yrs/30k b2b but the Prius goes up to 6/60 on the powertrain and with new CVT technology I don't want to take that chance. Why doesn't Honda back up this car with a more generous warranty?
As for the ride, I would not say it's the most fun experience I have ever had behind the wheel but if I wanted fun I would get a mini Cooper or something.
The long wait, which is the primary downfall of the Prius, actually works to my benefit since I am trying to get myself rightside up on my current loan before trading in. I just hope Leko is wrong about the rumors of a price increase. I did ask the salesman about this and he didn't exactly answer yea or nay but he seemed honest that he had not received any word from Toyota regarding a price hike.

Anyway, the order will go in soon. In the meantime this site has piqued my curiosity about my current mileage in my Corolla so I will adding that to the logs.
Thanks again for all the input. I'll be lurking

bohous
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 04-20-2004, 07:55 PM
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Hot_Georgia_2004 Hot_Georgia_2004 is offline
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Real Name: Steve
Location: Atlanta, Ga
Hybrids: 2004 Civic CVT Hybrid
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Honda offers a std. warranty of 36K miles b2b and 75K on the battery.

They also offer varius other degrees of extended warranty.
Like you I wasn't too sure about it all so I bought their most generous one.
It covers 7yr/70K b2b and the battery is also covered to 10yr/150K.
Steve

.

Efficient drivers do it better.
1003 miles a tank personal record. 74MPG calculated. HCH1 CVT
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 04-20-2004, 08:12 PM
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xcel xcel is offline
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Real Name: Wayne Gerdes
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Hi Bohous:

___If I were going to spend $21,000 on a Hybrid, I would purchase an 04 Prius. The big item here is “if”. It is larger, just as efficient, and faster then the HCH but you can’t get them, they are too expensive, the rear view imho simplye sucks, and the gadgetry installed is somewhat idiotic.

___Larger in comparison to the HCH given the front and rear leg room as well as overall width and passenger and cargo carrying capacity is larger. This is however a compact with a hatch added to make it a mid-size. It is not the size of a Camry, an Accord, a Taurus, a Malibu …

___As efficient in that it has received even better fuel economy then the HCH w/ 5-speed or CVT on a tank over tank or just take a look at the EPA estimates. The HCH members will argue this to their death however

___Faster then the HCH w/ CVT or manual given a 9.8 to 11.43 seconds for a 0 to 60 run depending on who ran this performance test. When the pack is drained however, this thing is the slowest DOG on the road at 14.9 seconds to 60. On the slalom and especially the skid pad, the HCH will eat the 04 Prius alive.

___Availability … well, the 04 Prius’ aren’t available and the HCH is at a nicely discounted price in many cases.

___Gadgetry? Why would someone stick a fob into a slot and push a button in another location to start a car? The key in and turn used for many decades is about as simple and intuitive as can be used yet Toyota made this practice less ergonomic just to say it’s different??? SS/SE cures it of that problem but with the appropriate increase in cost for that option The LCD with power flows is about the most useless piece of information available. After about a week, it means nothing. This is where the HCH with the Charge/Assist, various Instantaneous fuel consumption displays, and a tachometer not available in an 04 Prius come into play. The HCH’s gauge package is not only far more practical, it is also much more useful in the real world for improving ones fuel economy.

___The “if” part is because you are purchasing a 40 - 45 mpg car that is as slow to 60, slow in the slalom, and achieves lowly G’s on the skid pad, as any car you may have possibly owned in the last 10 - 20 years. Along with that, you have no height adjustable seats, no leather interior, no heated front seats, no telescopic steering, the rear view sucks compared to just about any mid-size sedan you can test drive, and it is outrageously expensive when you load it up.

___If I was to purchase a brand new Hybrid today, I would purchase the 04 Prius with the minimum of options. And in reality, I wouldn’t purchase one at all because it’s to darn expensive for what you receive in return.

___Definition of Fun? My definition anyway … A loaded up Ford Focus PZEV ZX5 5 Dr. w/ leather interior, heated-height adjustable seats, tilt and telescopic steering, power everything, ABS, CD/MP3 player, 16” aluminum wheels, powered sunroof, power everything else, 0 - 60 in ~ 8 seconds with a stick, 3 Yr./36,000 bumper to bumper, 5 Yr./100,000 Power Train, and a free Dell computer here near Chicago. All of this can be purchased for as little as $15,800 as equipped above. That is why it is on Car and Drivers 10 Best for the last 5 years. It is fun to drive and is relatively inexpensive for a car that can be loaded with luxury. Have you ever heard of Champagne taste on a beer budget? The Focus PZEV is my answer to that question given it’s a point and shoot rocket on a poorly managed financial plan Then again, the 05 w/ the 2.0 L PZEV engine with a bit less HP (136 HP) but better fuel economy (35 – 36 mpg) is going to be available soon as well?

___PZEV means it is just as clean as the 04 Prius and even cleaner then the HCH in either CVT or 5-speed format using higher sulfur fuel.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

.



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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2004, 09:24 AM
jjmcubed jjmcubed is offline
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The reasons I chose the Civic are as follows(in no particular order):

1) Center mounted dash display. There is no way I'm going to be constantly looking to my right when I'm driving. I'm sure the Insight and Civic people agree with me. As much as I look at my "fun" meter, I can't imagine it being to the right.

2) I'm not one to stick out in the crowd. Acually in other words I don't like the Toyotas style. I like the fact that when the conversation turns to the $2.05 per gallon of the cheap stuff around here, I just ask how much miles per gallon they get. When they hear I get over 50 their jaws drop.

3) There is no way I was going to get on anyones waiting list. My brother works at a Toyota dealership, so I could have gotten a deal. Not worth it for me at all.

If you decide on the Toyota I'm sure you'll be happy. My only thing to say is that you have to drive them both. Go into the dealership and be strong. If you can drive them back to back. Also, I believe if you have mostly city commutes and your not careful, the Toyota will get vastly better gas mileage. That is just my driving. I hate to hold people up. If you drive on the freeway and are careful than the Civic will give you better mileage. Just my 2 cents.

.

2004 Honda Civic Hybird
"Boring" White
5 Speed
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2004, 02:03 PM
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flare flare is offline
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Imo you get more for your money in the Prius than the HCH
Motor Trend believes that the Prius could possibly be the "most subsidized car on the market today"
Prius has a bit more legroom and i like the hatchback's functionality.

.

A Prius a day keeps the doctor away!
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2004, 03:46 PM
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xcel xcel is offline
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Hi Flare:

___Actually, the Honda Insight is the most heavily subsidized automobile on the market (to the tune of ~ $20,000 - $30,000 over and above MSRP) although Honda has stopped making them for the 04 MY.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

.



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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2004, 01:46 PM
leko leko is offline
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If anyone in Southern Maine is looking to test drive the prius, Toyota Portsmouth had a demo last I knew. I bought from them, and they were allright. We had some issues, but I beleive they were more due to cercumstance than anything else. If you order from them be ready to grab it when it comes in, or they may sell it out from under you.
thanks,
leko
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2004, 02:07 PM
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flare flare is offline
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I'd like to know where you got your sources from
mine was from MT

.

A Prius a day keeps the doctor away!
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 04-24-2004, 12:31 PM
BIF BIF is offline
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Location: Central Florida
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Quote:
Originally posted by flare@Apr 22nd 2004 @ 5:03 PM
...Prius has a bit more legroom and i like the hatchback's functionality.
And don't forget, you can throw a bicycle in the back of a Prius for internal storage (I don't like bike racks).

.

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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 05-19-2004, 01:44 PM
kabel kabel is offline
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I chose the hch over the prius for a couple of reasons

1. i like the fact the hch looks like a regular car. it doesn't stand out. i picked up the magnesium mettalic and besides the thicker grill, the top antenna and the hybrid plate, I can pass off as an EX and go unnoticed when i drive or park.

2. availability. toyota said it would be 3-6 months and they did not have one to test drive or even sit inside. hmmm.... honda found me a grey one and brought it to the dealership from another location.

3. price. i paid 19k for the hch with the cvt and the color i wanted, and the prius with the options was nowhere close.


I like having the more traditional dashboard and the ability to see what my car is doing every minute while i drive, and helps me to drive better.

as far as gas mileage, i'm getting 53 on my commute. So EPA ratings are out the window.

.

My Hybrid

2004 Civic w/ CVT
Magnesium Metallic
my commute 53 miles each way
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