GM Greens Up Saturn Image with "Mild Hybrids" - GreenHybrid

Jason · #1 (**permalink**) 08-03-2005, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Saturn is going green as General Motors tries to position the brand as eco-friendly with the launch of a line of fuel saving vehicles.

According to Ljdzaik, a “mild Hybrid” Saturn has a starter/generator system that will save fuel by shutting down the engine when the vehicle slows and stops.

The first Green Line Saturn, a version of the Vue SUV equipped with the fuel-saving starter/generator, goes on sale next summer as a 2007 model.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0...urn_green.html

Schwa · #2 (**permalink**) 08-04-2005, 11:18 AM

This aught to be standard equipment on all cars, and I don't think it deserves a hybrid label. Yes, it saves gas, but there's nothing hybrid about it, other than the fact that hybrids can do the same thing...

Once again it shows how GM cares more about their tarnished image than any real concern for the FE of their fleet, or the environment in general.

AshenGrey · #3 (**permalink**) 08-18-2005, 03:35 PM

I don't think GM has a clue. In fact, Ford is the only one of the "Big 3" that has any clue at all. Gee... Their bloated SUVs sit on the dealer lots for 90+ days, and they have to offer employee pricing and $4k-$6k discounts to bribe people to buy them. Meanwhile, the Prius has had a 2-6 month waiting list for two years straight, with NO DISCOUNTS.

Their "hybrid" solution only costs about $800 per vehicle to implement and adds about 2-3 MPG. Whoop-de-do. Color me unimpressed.

Personally, I think a car should get at least 20% of its propulsion from batteries in order to qualify as a hybrid. The GM solution doesn't push the vehicle at all!

JeromeP · #4 (**permalink**) 08-18-2005, 03:43 PM

GM is looking for a quickie solution to their problem. They don't have anything in the pipe and I have this suspicion that their partnership with DC isn't going to produce any fruit for a number of years. And frankly I doubt either organization will see it through because they are competitors more than they are friends. Joint ventures in the auto industry is something of a oxymoron.

AZCivic · #5 (**permalink**) 08-18-2005, 06:24 PM

I don't understand why they're permitted to call it a hybrid. Hybrid = drivetrain is a hybrid of gas and electric propulsion. The GM's get ZERO propulsion from electricity.

AshenGrey · #6 (**permalink**) 08-26-2005, 07:45 AM

I agree. I've read on www.hybridcars.com that there are quite a few flavors of "hybrid. GM, of course, is choosing the CHEAPEST.

"Light" hybrid = Engine stops at traffic lights and stop signs, then resumes when propulsion is needed.
"Mild" hybrid = Idle-stop + IMA helps push the car.
"Full" hybrid = Idle-stop + IMA propels vehicle at slow speed + IMA assists engine at higher speed.

The GM solution would be OK if they weren't planning on still charging +$4,000 per vehicle (like a full hybrid) even though the "light" hybrid system costs less than a grand to implement. The "light" hybrid only captures an additional 2-3 MPG. GM is making the typical Big Corporate mistake of being greedy and cheap at the same time.

Delta Flyer · #7 (**permalink**) 08-26-2005, 07:50 AM

GM is in the autostop mode in more ways than one.

texashchman · #8 (**permalink**) 08-26-2005, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AZCivic

I don't understand why they're permitted to call it a hybrid. Hybrid = drivetrain is a hybrid of gas and electric propulsion. The GM's get ZERO propulsion from electricity.

Same way a company can call things" all natural" and they are not!Kevin

lars-ss · #9 (**permalink**) 08-30-2005, 11:34 AM

This lists the GM/Saturn Vue hybrid system in more detail than I have seen before:

http://www.auto123.com/en/info/news/...id=47677&pg=1#

Quote:

With this powertrain, GM engineers developed the belt alternator starter hybrid to deliver improved fuel economy by performing the following functions:

* it shuts off the engine when the vehicle is brought to a stop to minimize engine idling
* it restarts the engine promptly when the brake pedal is released
* it enables early fuel cutoff to the engine during vehicle deceleration
* it captures vehicle kinetic energy during deceleration to help charge the advanced nickel metal hydride hybrid battery, a feature that is usually called regenerative braking, and
* it performs intelligent battery charging by opportunistically charging when it's most efficient.

The belt alternator starter hybrid consists of six major components:

* precision electric motor/generator unit
* engine coolant-cooled power electronics that control the motor/generator unit and provide 12-volt vehicle accessory power
* an advanced, nickel metal hydride hybrid battery pack capable of delivering and receiving more than 10kW of peak power
* an engine control module that includes "sophisticated Hybrid Supervisory Software" to manage both engine and hybrid system operation
* a new engine accessory drive with dual tensioner assembly and aramid cord belt that enables reliable transfer of both motoring and generating torque, and
* the hybrid-enabled 4T45-E transaxle that includes an auxiliary oil pump and unique hybrid controls to ensure seamless hybrid operation.

Schwa · #10 (**permalink**) 08-30-2005, 11:48 AM

Supposedly they are trying to minimize the cost difference between standard models and the "hybrid" and that's why it's a minimal design, as far as hybrids go.

Will be interesting to see how it compares, and what the real fuel savings will be.