If anyone is interested in a Denver / Rocky Mountain region mini-hybrid rally, please send me a message and / or post your ideas here. Fall colors in the Rockies are awesome, and Fall weather is ideal for learning how to squeeze out great MPG. If we could get just a handful of participants, and a few models of Hybrid represented, it would be worth-while. And the more, the merrier. One idea I had was to do a mountain driving challenge. I would like to organize a Pikes Peak Hill Climb challenge. They have an official race from 7,000 ft to 14,110 ft every year. Speed is the goal, and shortest time to the top wins! I contacted event planners last year, and they were un-interested in a MPG challenge, even as an exhibition, before, or after the main event. They told me all their spectators were interested in speed and excitement, and a "hybrid slow speed, high MPG event" sounded "anti-climatic". The road to the top is open to the public, until the first heavy snow. It is a toll road, but I could arrange group passes and such. This would take on a whole new meaning for "hypermiling" as you would need a stratagy to manage too much regen power available on the way down, and FAS may be out of the question on 16% slopes with 1000 foot cliffs and no guard rails! It is a 38 mile round-trip, and remember, with steep grades on the way up, water will boil at 185'F when you reach the top! ( The web site actually says to keep your car running at fast idle when you reach the summit to keep the radiator fan going... ) Besides being a true MPG challenge, the scenery is spectacular, and the camaraderie will be exceptional. I also have a source were I could "borrow" a dozen ScanGauge trip meters for those who do not own one. They would be available for purchase, so think of it as "try before you buy" with no obligation. If Pikes Peak sounds too scary for some, post a suggestion. I'm open to anything. Even a Denver Metro area road rally would be fine with me. Ideas? Comments? Thanks! -John

Did you get permission to use the word hybridfest? I'm sure it isn't a good idea to use that name as it is not associated with the official hybridfest and may cause confusion with sponsors and media.

You might want to change the name.

I am temporarily changing the title of this thread to "mini-hybrid rally" pending approval from the hybridfest orginization.

My hydroponics experiment
My carputer

You ever notice how hard it is to lip read cartoon characters?

John,
Sounds like you are planning a great event. Wish I could come out and attend.

I want to make it clear that this event is not affiliated with Hybridfest, Inc.
(Hybridfest Inc is a non-profit company based in Wisconsin.)

I would encourage you to promote this event under the name of your own organization if you are planning a special event that involves the public in this manner.

I know of a good insurance company you could use for special event insurance. PM me if you want details.

Thanks!

Eric Powers
www.EVPowers.com
EV Powers - A Green Vehicle workshop in Madison, WI
608-729-4082

Thanks, that's totally fine. It was a spawn of the moment idea.

I meant " A Hybrid Fest " not "The HybridFest".

I expect just a few guys and gals getting together. No "Inc."

Your "Pikes Peak challenge" sounds like a possible change of pace for hypermiling events. I don't know if driving on steep roads with no guard rails is "liability" sound as I am no legal professional. I wonder if a hypermiling event that combines a variety of course conditions with points given for speed/time and mileage (mpg) would be a better test of driving skills than just mileage. An automobile decathlon event? In the real world don't we drive in a wide variety of conditions? No, I am not advocating an above the speed limit driving test as the scan gauge II can be utilized to check for max speed.

By the way, where do you find or obtain all these detailed figures/measurements? Do you have family or friends that work for Ford?

2005 4WD Escape Hybrid

Best Interstate tank trip E20 MPG 34.6 for 271 miles along I-80 in Indiana and Ohio. May 2008

Best multiple road tank trip E20 MPG 36.2 for 202 miles in Southwestern Pa. July 2008.

Best multiple road tank trip E50 38.1 MG for 246 miles in Northern Wisconsin Aug 2012

Hey, at this point, I have fewer than 5 interested parties. But hey? This is day one of my query! I'm not Disneyland or Six Flags. I'm not running a roller coaster ride. What liability? If you can't keep your car on the road, I hope YOUR insurance policy is up to date.

At this point, it's going to be a bunch of friends with a common interest just getting together. If it is a success this year, we can advertise in earnest for next year, get sponsors, donations, prizes, call the media, etc. If it gets really big, ( Like 35 or more cars ) then we will probably need to arrange to get the toll road reserved all to ourselves for a couple hour. And ( for a price ) they will do that. Say "7am to 9am" reserved for hybrids only. By going early, it will have minimum impact on the general public, and the general public will have a minimum impact on us.

Right now, I'm thinking if we get 20 cars to participate ( that would knock my socks off, right now, I'm hoping for 10 ) or less, then we'd just have to go and meld with the general public. Regular price for the toll road ( and all day admission to the mountain for hikes, picnics, etc.. ) is $10. Right now we can get tickets for $8. With groups of 20 or more, maybe I can get the price less than that. At the base of the mountain is the gold rush town of Manitou Springs, and a few miles from there is Colorado Springs, and an awesome FREE park preserve with geology and rock formations you can see no where else on earth ( Garden of the Gods ). Equally near by are Cave tours for a fee. ( Cave of the Winds ) It's really a great family attraction spot. And if the wife & kids ( or hubby and kids ) are not into hypermiling, there is the famous Cog Railway Train ride to the top of Pikes peak. This train takes slopes of over 25% I think... about as steep as a stairway in places. Then, the Hybrid driver could meet the family at the top! And hey! Less weight in the car to lug down your mileage on the way up!!!
I'm just brain storming. Oh... this group will get a kick out of this... the round-trip is 38 miles. And due to steepness, the Pikes Peak web site recommends you have at least a half tank of gas before starting the journey. Half a tank?!?!?!? I plan on doing it with half a gallon!!!!!
Keep the ideas coming!
-John

Gpsman1, don't worry about the numbers. The key thing is to do it and have it grow in the future if you want to continue it. 5 people doing it is better than 0 people. I applaud you organizing this.

I'd be tempted if it were closer to me.

My hydroponics experiment
My carputer

You ever notice how hard it is to lip read cartoon characters?

I would be interested in a get-together, or even an MPG challenge. However, I'm not really interested in doing the Pikes Peak Hill Climb. I think the numbers from this drive would be well below the EPA numbers and would not "showcase" what a hybrid could do. To beat the EPA numbers on hills, you need the grade to be such that during the downhill portion, the terminal velocity is slow enough to be safe. Otherwise, you are just throwing a lot away by braking (including engine braking). I imagine everybody's battery packs would be topped off in no time.

Another way to look at it: To beat the EPA on a round trip up and down a mountain, you have to get at least half of EPA on the way up. If you get half of EPA on the way up and you use absolutely no gas on the way down, you will be at the EPA number. You can imagine that if you keep increasing the grade, you will reach a point where half of EPA is not attainable on the way up. I believe the Pikes Peak road is that steep.

I just don't see a lot of room for hypermiling techniques on a drive like that. Anyway, just my opinion...

Mr Kite: Thanks for your input.

Here's a carrot to dangle in front of your mule:
The speed limits will be about 15 MPH to 25 MPH on the way up, and similar,
but maybe a tad faster on the way down. Still sound horrible for MPG?

I don't know, I have not tried it yet, but it may surprise you. ALL my best tanks have involved mountain driving. Usually in the 35-55 MPH range with 5-6% slopes, but in my Escape, I always get about 25-26 MPG on the uphill part, and up to 160 MPG on the downhill. My personal best tank, of 53 MPG was about 75% mountains, and 25% other.

25 MPG x 40 miles = 1.60 gallons used up.
160 MPG x 40 miles = .25 gallons used down.

80 miles / 1.85 gallons = 43.25 MPG in an SUV, without really trying much.

But I'm with you Mr. Kite. We could have both an "ideal" route AND a "most challenging route" if you think that would be interesting. I'll agree that most don't climb mountains on a daily basis. But part of the illustration is, If I can get 40+ MPG in the worst possible driving condition, what can the average driver look forward to in a close to ideal case? ( And I'm not sure Pikes Peak is worst possible, I think stop and go with A/C ( or defrost ) set to Max. is the worst case... )

Keep those ideas flowing. This thread is good, and PM's are available too.
Since we don't have a date yet, we don't have commitments yet, but I have 4 or 5 interested people in the Denver area already! -John

John,
My parents live right next to Garden of the Gods- you're right it's a beautiful area and there's lots of fun things for the whole family. But I don't think an mpg challenge route should be Pikes Peak. I don't have a problem with heights, it's the dirt road and the no-guardrail thing that gets me. Speaking for myself only, it's all I can do to drive up and down the mountain, there's no way I could do it competitively.

I'd hate to see you have someone drive off a cliff because they were fixated on their scangauge or something. That would be terrible press for the hypermiler movement.

By the way, if anyone wants to see an incredible video of a Pikes Peak Hill Climb, click here!

Best trip: 48.9 mpg over 17.9 miles (scangauge)
Best tank: 40.7 mpg over 606 miles (calculated)