iboomalot, the connection between biodiesel and natural gas is fertilizer.

From http://www.fromthewilderness.com/fre...as_crisis.html
Natural gas is a primary feed stock in the production of anhydrous ammonia (82% nitrogen). Anhydrous ammonia (NH3) in turn can be applied directly to the soil or utilized as a feed stock for other nitrogen fertilizers such as urea (45% nitrogen) and ammonium nitrate (34% nitrogen). It takes an average of 33.5 MMBtus of natural gas to produce one ton of NH3. Consequently, the cost of producing NH3 has jumped from approximately $70 a ton a year ago to $295 a ton in December, 2000.

btw, these same considerations apply to any fuel source derived from mainstream plant agriculture, such as ethanol or methanol.

You almost answered you own question

The primary (easiest) source of the methanol used in the reaction (ie. 15- 20%) is from natural gas. Although other alchohols can be used and methanol itself from a variety of sources.

RichC

--RichC --- "My Desultory Blog" & CinciTDI Club

My perfect car would be a "trybrid" running with:

1) A biodiesel engine (hydrogen would be better, but still not available on a reasonable price)
2) An electric engine
3) Some flexible solar panels on the roof charging the electric engine (In Spain we get a lot of sun, now wasted on heating the car instead of providing energy to it).

Why would hydrogen be better? Hydrogen is not a primary energy source on earth (there is lots in the sun). Do you know how they make hydrogen? Electrolysis, which takes electricity. A hydrogen powered car is the same thing as and electric car which basically means you would have coal/natural gas and nuclear powered car, in the states anyways. Where does your grid power come from?

Mineral oil and biodiesel always produce CO2 and other nasty emissions when they are burnt. Hydrogen makes none.

To get hydrogen you need electricity, which you could produce using solar power, hydroelectric, etc.

Even if you use oil and carbon, you would be making our cities (not the world) much cleanier.

Keep those engineers and scientist working ... in the mean time why not use clean, domestic, renewable biodiesel in a highly efficient diesel engine?

The technology is available today, the US jobs are being created that produce the renewable fuels, we produce an excess of feedstocks and have an entirely new algae based biodiesel waiting in the wings. (link is a PDF file) Adopting biodiesel continues to use the existing distribution infrastructure and can blend to any percentage with the existing petroleum product as we 'grow' (pun intended) into even better alternatives.

Even if you wind, solar, hydro, tidal, geothermal, we'll probably end up heavily using nuclear power planets to produce our future hydrogen fuel cells and even then I highly doubt they will supplant the diesel when it comes to heavy equipment for a long time? Continuing to promote biodiesel has very few if any downsides.

--RichC --- "My Desultory Blog" & CinciTDI Club

First of all let me state that we are on the same side here. We both want clean burning renewable fuel.

They say biodiesel produces no "net" CO2 because the plants that are used to make biodiesel take in CO2 and output O2 (like all plants that use photosynthesis) so it is a cycle. BD does have other nasty emissions but nothing worst than our current cars. It is not a great solution but it is easiest one I've seen to implement.

Personally I'm not a big fan of Hydrogen, ever see the Hindenberg? Ok I know all high energy fuel sources can be dangerous but Hydrogen is very nasty because it must be kept under huge pressure. Rich's PDF will give you an idea of how inefficient producing and compressing hydrogen currently is. Hey I'll be all for it if they solve some of the safety and efficiency issues. Please read the PDF and tell me what you think.

My perfect car would also be able to get electricity from its own heat:


http://www.spacedaily.com/news/energy-tech-05zh.html

So:

1) A biodiesel engine (hydrogen would be better, but still not available on a reasonable price)
2) An electric engine
3) Some flexible solar panels on the roof charging the electric engine (In Spain we get a lot of sun, now wasted on heating the car instead of providing energy to it).
4) Some thermoelecric device to transform the heat generated by the biodiesel engine back into electricity

How about a hybrid car with a Stirling Engine being the primary power source to maintain battery charge?

I've been contemplating this for quite some time an even built a super efficient sterling model engine that will run 5 - 10 minutes on the warmth of a cup of coffee. (click for a RealMedia clip - 1.7meg) Obviously finding a source of heat is still the challenge but potentially a highly efficient super clean combination heat source could be used to mantain charge in an EV? Perhaps a solar collection system to run the stirling when parked would maintain the charge 'cleanly' and a ethanol burner would provide the heat while underway? This kind of technology would be do-able today and not require the hydrogen/fuel cell infrastructure. Obviously there are probably a few glitches but I think this would be a really cool vehicle.

I believe NASA was working on micro versions of these for potential in space (solar heating) and know some Swedish company has a submarine based on this stirling engine technology. (ie. because it is so quiet)

Nevertheless ... it is really cool.

RichC

--RichC --- "My Desultory Blog" & CinciTDI Club

It sounds interesting, would you get enough energy and range with this engine?

David.