Before I get on to ranting let me first say that I love the Prius. I find it an amazing technology showcase that works very very well and is very very cool. Great car, wish I had one.

Many folks out on the internet go on and on about the wonderful "full" hybrid design of the Prius. This is all fine, I agree that the Prius is nothing short of fantastic.

These same folks just can leave well enough alone, they seem to always feel the need to point out just how much better there "full" hybrids are compared to the "mild" hybrids that Honda sells. Sorry but this is where I get a little hot under the collar. Rather than bore you all with the technical details I ask you to look no farther than our database. I drive a Gen 1 Civic Hybrid with a manual transmission. Currently our database has the "mild" hybrid Gen 1 HCH at :
48.3 mpg (US)


and the Gen 2 Prius "full" hybrid at:
48.1 mpg (US)


The numbers are close enough that in spite of the MT HCH1's narrow victory we can call it a tie. I'm thinking the HCH holds its own pretty darn good for a "mild" hybrid.

BTW the HCH2 is too new to be used in this discussion. The sample size is too small and there are no summer miles in the database for the HCH2. We can come back to this point in a year and see where we are.

just tell them that the engine used in the prius is a joke compared to honda's

and vice versa with the hybrid system. also slam in their face that you saved a couple thousand compared to what they spent, making your fuel savings "more real". And tell them you didn't have to wait **** for your car, while they went heels over toes to get their and had to pay more than MSRP price.

oh and tell them your car corners better too haha.

2003 toyota prius, 55 mpg lifetime starting.

Vice versa with the hybrid system? I hope you mean that toyota's hybrid system itself is more robust than ours, and more effective in the long run as far as electric energy-saving techniques go. And Toyota's atkinsonized engines are technically more efficient, if not quite the highway champs that Honda's are. Though didn't i read somewhere else that Honda's new valve timing on the 06 HCH could technically be considered the Atkinson cycle?

ya that's what i meant as in toyota having the more suprierior hybrid system... i don't think the civic hybrid is atkinson, i'm pretty sure the 8 spark plugs and the crazy I vtec system just puts the 1.5 toyota like its some preschooler's job. then again the same can be said about honda's IMA... look at the numbers on the 1.3 Litres, almost as much torque and HP as toyota's 1.5 ... i don't think honda's engine should be atikinson otherwise its going to be too weak to pull the whole car. remember honda's electric motor is whimpy compared to the v8 toruqeyness of toyota's



At the end it all comes down to choices.

2003 toyota prius, 55 mpg lifetime starting.

It took awhile longer than expected, but my prediction came true.
The two camps (Prius II & HCH) both did a great job at pushing and holding their FE numbers.

I can't wait to see what the '06 HCH will do. Early entries into the database look promising.
And how will Toyota upgrade the next geneneration Prius?

Regards,

Imagine if there were a 2006 HCH MT. The CVT is promising enough, but incorporate the added control of a manual, and you'd have a real hypermiling car there.

Hi Civic Duty:

___Maybe? The jury is still out although we shall see soon enough given the number of new HCH-II’s owners adding tanks over the past week …

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes

or incorporated 7 speed cvt oh man! i'd buy it in a heartbeat.

2003 toyota prius, 55 mpg lifetime starting.

In the Dallas area, we have a very strongly opinionated sportswriter whose mantra is:

"It's all about the quarterback!"

He means championship football teams have someone like Tom Brady, Manning, Leinart, etc....

____________________________________

Back on-topic, it all comes back to how much gas was consumed. The ICE is still the primary source of propulsion in today's hybrids. The purpose of the hybrid component is:

• to allow the ICE engine to run more efficiently (i.e. not idle at intersections or slow traffic....)
• to recover wasted kinetic energy from the ICE

Regardless of the hybrid system, the ideal is having an ICE that wastes as little energy as possible, then capture the wasted energy.

60.3mpg lifetime - 71mpg in winter months

Best Run >
www.cleanmpg.com

"fanatic" is what the lazy call the dedicated

You are comparing compact car to mid sized car, apples to oranges.

Ken@Japan