We just have to wait to see what the 06 does.

My hydroponics experiment

You ever notice how hard it is to lip read cartoon characters?
"Crazy is what the sane call Delta Flyer"

Hi Ken1784:
___If the Prius II wasn’t a hatchback form factor, it too would be a compact …

How are vehicle classes defined?

Prius II Hatchback: 96.2 Cu. Ft. Passenger/16.1 Cu. Ft. Cargo = 112.3 Cu. Ft.
Prius II Sedan: 96.2 Cu. Ft. Passenger/~ 11.1 Cu. Ft. Cargo = 107.3 Cu. Ft.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes

I don't know where the 11.1 Cu. Ft. Cargo space came for Prius.
A smaller Corolla has 13.5 Cu. Ft. Cargo.

2005 HCH: 91 Cu. Ft. Passenger/10 Cu. Ft. Cargo = 101 Cu. Ft.
The HCH is 5% or more smaller than Prius.
I still don't think it is a fair comparison.

Ken@Japan

Hi Ken1784:

___Just saying that Toyota played a little game with all of us too …

Ford Focus ZX3/ZX5: Passenger: 94.4 - Cargo 18.6 = 113 cu. ft. but is a compact according to the EPA

___The 11.1 cu. ft. is ~ what the Prius’ cargo cap would be if it weren’t a hatch but a sedan.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes

First of all I'm not comparing anything. This thread is a response to all the "full" hybrid folks who have an over developed sense of superiority like John1701a and some of Toyota's PR people.

I agree that it any comparison between a Gen 1 HCH and a Gen 2 Prius is apples to oranges. There are plenty of differences that might lead you to call one an apple and the other an orange, for example the P2 is second generation so for a truly fair comparison perhaps we should compare the Gen 1 HCH to the Gen 1 Prius. Note that this has the added benifit of putting both cars in the compact class so it fixes your complaint.

Prius1:88.6 cubic ft passenger volume
11.8 cubic ft cargo volume

Total volume= 100.4 cubic feet, a compact.

Prius1 mileage from database= 45.0 mpg

Is this a more fair comparison to the Gen 1 HCH MT at 48.3 mpg and 101 cubic feet?

The point is that in real world conditions no one design is all that much better than the other. Both IMA and HSD have their advantages and I would not say that one is all that much better than another but some people do. Those people are the ones that this thread is a response to. If you look at the EPA numbers or if you look at the very best Prius hypermilers you might conclude that HSD is better and under the right conditions HSD might very well be better than IMA but in the real world according to our database this "full" hybrid HSD advantage is nonexistant.

Not really a good comparison, try comparing the eCVT Prius I to the CVT HCH I at 45 mpg. Considering that's what Toyota was selling when Honda came out with the HCH it makes sense. Now with improved motor, IMA and CVT it's competition to the Prius II, as it should be.

2001 Prius Photos       2005 Prius Photos
1992 Mitsubishi Delica Diesel-WVO Hybrid Photos

So comparing my MT HCH to a P2 is apples to oranges (according to Ken) and according to you a MT HCH is also not a good comparison to the P1. So I guess the MT HCH is in a class of its own and beyond comparison.

Still some will go out of their way to po po my "mild" hybrid in spite of the fact that their "full" hybrid is not any better in any meaningful way.

Lets look at it another way. Lets say 2 guys purchase cars to be raced on a quarter mile track. Lets say that car one is high tech and has a V-tech turbo intercooler engine with fuel injection and 48 valves plus high pressure direct injection and 4 spark plugs per cylinder. Perhaps car one also has the latest brown-tooth connectivity and OBD XXIV and cost $80,000.00. Car one uses a new traction technology called "full" traction.

Car two has a carburated big block and cost $25,000.00. Both cars are not street legal and are only driven on the same quarter mile track. Car one's average quarter mile time is 10 seconds and the best ever was 9.6 seconds. Car two's average quarter mile time is 9.9 seconds and best ever was 9.3 seconds. Car two uses old limited slip technology that the car one drivers call "mild" traction.

Which car is better (neglecting resale)?

EDIT:

BTW the Prius1 is at 45.0 even and the Honda Civic1 CVT is actually at 45.3 which is not really a big deal except that the 45.0 people are the ones telling everybody how much better their car is.

BTW2 the new Civic 2 just jumped up from 47 to 48.5 which is currently the highest mileage of any hybrid except the Insights. You could argue that the sample size is too small for the HCH2 and I would agree. Time will tell on the HCH2.

Wait. Which is which? You'll have to excuse my ignorance, but aren't the Prius and Civic about equally long. They both hold 5 people. I will agree that the Prius sits a bit higher in the saddle, but does that make it a mid-size?

Chris.

Yep, the Prius has a bit more room inside, mostly due to the hatchback vs trunk design mentioned by xcel. With a trunk you have a knotch taken out of the available room straight above the trunk from the bumper to the rear glass. With a hatch back that space is enclosed and counts as interior space. The Civic does technically seat 5 but 4 is a much more realistic number for adults. The headroom in the back is also a bit cramped so short adults would fit better. I've only spent a few minutes inside a Prius but I did get the feeling that the Prius was a hair bigger inside.

Prius2:

Exterior Length: 175 in. Width: 67.9 in. Height: 58.1 in. Wheel Base: 106.3 in. Ground Clearance: 4.9 in. Curb Weight: 2890 lbs. Interior Front Head Room: 39.1 in. Front Hip Room: 51 in. Front Shoulder Room: 55.3 in. Rear Head Room: 37.1 in. Rear Shoulder Room: 53 in. Rear Hip Room: 51.6 in. Front Leg Room: 41.9 in. Rear Leg Room: 38.6 in. Luggage Capacity: 16.1 cu. ft. Maximum Cargo Capacity: 16 cu. ft. Maximum Seating: 5 Civic:

Exterior Length: 175.4 in. Width: 67.5 in. Height: 56.3 in. Wheel Base: 103.1 in. Ground Clearance: 4.4 in. Curb Weight: 2675 lbs. Interior Front Head Room: 39.8 in. Front Hip Room: 51.2 in. Front Shoulder Room: 52.6 in. Rear Head Room: 37.2 in. Rear Shoulder Room: 52 in. Rear Hip Room: 49.8 in. Front Leg Room: 42.2 in. Rear Leg Room: 36 in. Luggage Capacity: 10.1 cu. ft. Maximum Cargo Capacity: 10 cu. ft. Maximum Seating: 5
The total volumes have already been shown by other members.

Are you talking about the prius or hch headroom in the back being shorter. I've always heard the headroom in the backseat for civics is better than the prius. Some of my co-workers are tall and sit in the back of my car with no problems. They even comented that they were supprised with how much room they.

My hydroponics experiment

You ever notice how hard it is to lip read cartoon characters?
"Crazy is what the sane call Delta Flyer"