Interactive hybrid cars resource
GreenHybrid Home - Hybrid Cars
Hybrid Cars Discussion Forums
Hybrid Articles
Hybrid Mileage Database & Car Specs
Hybrid Car Photo Gallery
Shopping Guide for Hybrid Cars


Go Back   GreenHybrid - Hybrid Cars > Hybrid Topics > Fuel Economy & Emissions
Register FAQ Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Fuel Economy & Emissions Talk about the mileage database, EPA, hypermiling, gas and driving strategy. 

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 11-19-2004, 07:02 AM
kenny kenny is offline
Ridiculously Active Enthusiast
 
Hybrids: 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid
Posts: 1,090
Default

Check out the hardcore posters in the database.
That would be anyone who entered data over most of the year.

Click on the name of their car.
First you will see a graph of their MPG vs. Month.

You will notice mileage is best during the warm summer months.
Then people from certain states will get a MPG hit during the months requiring air conditioning.

Why does cold weather lower mileage?

.

Need fewer troops to support.
Drive a hybrid.
Best tank 71.65 MPG.

Before this car I spent two years learning hypermiling on my 2004 HCH1.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 11-19-2004, 07:29 AM
lars-ss lars-ss is offline
Ridiculously Active Enthusiast
 
Real Name: Larry S. Singleton
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Hybrids: 2007 TCH and Loving It !
Posts: 1,427
Default

Good Question !!! Here are a couple of reasons:

1. Battery - The cold "saps" the battery's ability to hold it's charge - the charge trickles away faster. So more of your gasoline is used for recharging the battery. So although ALL vehicles suffer MPG problems in cold weather, we Hybrid owners suffer even more...

2. Fuel reaction to the cold - The fuel does not vaporize as well in the cold, and the computer will run the engine richer until it is warm, using more fuel.

3. Shorter days means more headlight use, and the additional load on the alternator uses more fuel.

4. Engines are more efficient after warming up - and if your trips are fairly short, you will suffer MORE because the engine will never reach full efficiency before the end of the trip.

5. Cold Tires - Rubber gets stiff in the cold, so tires from overnight parking take longer to warm up and until they do, they have higher rolling resistance, which also contributes to additional fuel usage.

more later....
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 11-19-2004, 07:40 AM
Rammstein Rammstein is offline
Active Enthusiast
 
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 86
Default

I would also add fuel or gasoline formulation.

Diesel #2 is mixed with diesel #1 (Kerosene) to a certain amount.

The more #1 you get the less fuel economy.

Less BTU's per volume.

I guess it's the same for gasoline.

So that's why there's a 14 mpg difference in between February and August. :blink:

There are mods you can do to recuperate part of mileage lost because of weather...

.

Rammstein

Different and efficient by choice!
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 11-19-2004, 08:38 AM
ElectricTroy ElectricTroy is offline
Banned
 
Posts: 315
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by lars-ss@Nov 19th 2004 @ 10:29 AM
1. Battery - The cold "saps" the battery's ability to hold it's charge - the charge trickles away faster.
I thought NiMH batteries LIKE cold? They'll hold more charge when cold.



For the Hondas, the main difference is the cold engine. Owners have discovered that if they cover the radiators with cardboard, and trap the heat, they'll get summer-like MPGs.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 11-19-2004, 09:03 AM
lars-ss lars-ss is offline
Ridiculously Active Enthusiast
 
Real Name: Larry S. Singleton
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Hybrids: 2007 TCH and Loving It !
Posts: 1,427
Default

Here is the scoop on NiMH and cold:
Quote:
"At cold temperatures of 32°F, 0°C NiMH rechargeable batteries lose at least 20% of their deliverable capacity without significant loss of voltage; at -20°C, they have lost 80%. Since cold NiMH batteries behave like batteries of lesser capacity, be prepared for reduced runtimes in freezing conditions. Carrying extra sets of batteries in a warm pocket is a must with NiMH in the cold. When the cold batteries in the camera fail, switch to a warm set. Once the cold set has warmed up, its residual capacity will be ready to tap."
So yes, they lose deliverable capacity in cold weather....
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 11-19-2004, 10:29 AM
lars-ss lars-ss is offline
Ridiculously Active Enthusiast
 
Real Name: Larry S. Singleton
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Hybrids: 2007 TCH and Loving It !
Posts: 1,427
Default

Quote:
For the Hondas, the main difference is the cold engine. Owners have discovered that if they cover the radiators with cardboard, and trap the heat, they'll get summer-like MPGs.
What owners? How can you trap the radiator heat and keep the engine warm enough on a cold night to get "summer-like MPGs?

Look at the Real Mileage Database and find me an owner who got "summer-like MPGs" in winter in a cold environment...that I'd pay to see.....

Even if you DO trap the engine heat, you have only addressed ONE of the many issues which affect Hybrid MPG in cold weather (see my above post).....
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 11-19-2004, 01:49 PM
xcel's Avatar
xcel xcel is offline
Ridiculously Active Enthusiast
 
Real Name: Wayne Gerdes
Location: Northern Illinois
Posts: 2,567
Default

Hi All:

___The following might help: Warm Air Intake vs. Warm Engine Temp.

___A radiator block mod will not come close to Summer temperature driving FE in temps below ~ 60 degrees. A radiator block and warm air intake mod will not do it either but each adds their own component to improve FE in colder and colder external ambient temperatures. 2 more components are needed to solve the problem once and for all imho.

Stupid Puddles!

___About half way down the page of the linked thread, the discussion for the final solution comes into play. A totally sealed bay, warm fuel, warm air for the intake, and warm coolant all together in one nice package. Wheel bearing temps and such cannot be cured but they are not a huge drag imho. All of this talk about battery pack temps and such lowering FE is getting close to bunk for the Honda IMA setups in particular. Since the Prius I and II are forced to use the pack for some amount of propulsion, only a small portion of this discussion makes sense for them as well given the packs are ~ up to internal ambient in a matter of 5 minutes or so.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

.



Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 11-22-2004, 08:02 AM
ElectricTroy ElectricTroy is offline
Banned
 
Posts: 315
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by lars-ss@Nov 19th 2004 @ 1:29 PM
Quote:
For the Hondas, the main difference is the cold engine.* Owners have discovered that if they cover the radiators with cardboard, and trap the heat, they'll get summer-like MPGs.
What owners? How can you trap the radiator heat and keep the engine warm enough on a cold night to get "summer-like MPGs?
Owners at insightcental or honda-hybrid. The cardboard blocks the air & prevents it from cooling the engine while driving. That enables longer lean-burn.



Quote:
Even if you DO trap the engine heat, you have only addressed ONE of the many issues
I'm aware of the other issues but "For the Hondas, the ***MAIN*** difference is the cold engine."
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 11-22-2004, 03:11 PM
Hot_Georgia_2004's Avatar
Hot_Georgia_2004 Hot_Georgia_2004 is offline
Ridiculously Active Enthusiast
 
Real Name: Steve
Location: Atlanta, Ga
Hybrids: 2004 Civic CVT Hybrid
Posts: 1,674
Default

Quote:
"For the Hondas, the ***MAIN*** difference is the cold engine."
When it's really cold here (mid-thirties for you snow-birds) the dash temp guage reaches about half (Normal) in about 1.5 miles or about 2-3 minutes.
MPG has improved but the drive train has not warmed up yet.

I usually drive for about 10 miles...or about 15 minutes before I consider it warmed up enough to move the cabin temp off of cold :ph34r:

I'm not sure if I'll try any mods at all this winter given Atlanta's climate.

.

Efficient drivers do it better.
1003 miles a tank personal record. 74MPG calculated. HCH1 CVT
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 11-22-2004, 03:29 PM
basjoos's Avatar
basjoos basjoos is offline
Active Enthusiast
 
Location: Greenville, SC
Hybrids: None yet.
Posts: 74
Default

Another reason that cold weather lowers mileage is that cold air is more dense (thicker) than warm air, so your car is literally having to shove aside a greater weight of air as it travels down the road when it is cold, which results in increased aerodynamic drag. If you drive the same route the year round and do a lot of freewheeling as you drive, this temperature effect on aerodynamic drag is very noticable and can result in as much as a 15mph reduction in your terminal velocity at the bottom of the hill when you crest the top at about 60mph between a 90F summer day versis a 0F winter day. There are many moderate downgrades on which I can maintain speed when freewheeling in the summer where I slowly drop speed when freewheeling in the winter. Also in the eastern US, the relative humidity (RH) is typically lower in the winter than the summer. Humid air is less dense than dry air, so the dry winter air takes a hit on your mileage.

.

Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Topic Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Your HCH driving technique Hot_Georgia_2004 Honda Civic Hybrid 128 10-04-2005 04:36 PM
Owner's MPG Figures vs EPA Ratings sdctcher Fuel Economy & Emissions 40 09-11-2005 09:01 PM
Tricks to beating the EPA mileage figures lakedude Fuel Economy & Emissions 0 11-20-2004 09:15 PM
average driver, average mileage CLA Honda Insight 3 05-23-2004 06:04 PM
Upcoming Mileage Database Updates Jason Fuel Economy & Emissions 6 04-22-2004 11:47 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:20 AM.



This website is made possible by people like you.
Thank you.


HOME   .   DISCUSS   .   LEARN   .   COMPARE   .   SHARE   .   SHOP

About      Press Release      Contact

Suggested Link      Promote Hybrids      Site Store




COPYRIGHT © 2005-2006 Internet Brands, Inc. | Privacy Policy

SEO by vBSEO 3.0.0