Yesterday I spoke with Ron Gremban, the CalCars.Org primary engineer involved in producing the plug-in 100 MPG Prius. He, and founder Felix Kramer, have been in the national news lately (Time Magazine) and have both been busy trying to get some hybrid-friendly things in the new Energy Bill.

They are now ready to begin preparations for converting the Ford Escape Hybrid to a plug-in/alternative fuel mod.

They are asking for help from our community. I know there are many FEH owners in the San Francisco Area. Felix needs to make contact in order to measure and take photos of your vehicle. If you can help please send me an email and I will pass it on to Felix.

Below I quote background information about CalCars from their website:

Mike Maline - Sdctcher
2005 Ford Escape Hybrid Owner
California School Teacher

Oh .. and bring along your warranty and a $15K check too

R2-E2, 2G Prius.
Highway/City/Husband/Wife MPG: 56.5, as of 12/2005, 26K miles

Jac Nasser, Ford President: "We are planning to launch a hybrid version of
this car [P2000] within this year [1998]. We will also make FCEV available in
2004."

You forgot to add "trash can". You'll need it to put the pieces of your torn up Ford Warranty.

Eric Powers

MHG Organizer - www.MadisonHybridGroup.com
Hybridfest 2008 - A Hybrid Electric Car Show and More! www.hybridfest.com
Madison, WI July 19 & 20, 2008

I'm holding out for an Insight powered by di-lithium.

60.3mpg lifetime - 71mpg in winter months

Best Run >
www.cleanmpg.com

"fanatic" is what the lazy call the dedicated

CalCars is nowhere ready to build or tear down. The need is for inspection only; photos and tape measure. The actual prototype will be a vehicle donated or purchased under grant. So please do not worry about spending an hour or so with Ron or Felix and just letting them eyeball and ask questions. They need our experience and insight, not our car.

Mike Maline - Sdctcher
2005 Ford Escape Hybrid Owner
California School Teacher

Not trying to get off-topic here, but it has always bothered me that plug-in modified hybrids (such as the Prius plug in mods) are labeled as '100 MPG Prius' or '100 MPG FEH'.
I think that this kind of labeling is misleading. These cars do not acchieve a true economy of 100 MPG, because they do use an unspecified amount of grid energy to charge batteries. I'm not sure what the best solution is, but I suggest we come up with a better way of labeling such cars.

How about 55 MPG + 80 EV miles?

Or something akin to that. Such a label would identify the underlying ICE-based fuel economy, as well as the additional EV range derived from grid energy.
Other suggestions are welcome.

M

Hi MGBGT,

I know what you are talking about.

However, 100 MPG (or whatever) is accurate reporting. They are not talking about cost/mile, but rather gasoline useage. That some people equate that gallon as the total energy cost for those miles, and forget that the electricity cost is extra is somewhat besides the point. And in CalCar's defense, they do spell out the additional grid charges, not just the gasoline cost. In case you are curious, it is about one cent/mile if cheaper (5 cents/kWh) nightime electricity is available to you.

IMO, for the next five years or so, people interested in this conversion do so for the decrease in gasoline use, not with any misguided notions of it being a money saver. So finding out about another penny/mile, after spending $15K on the conversion, is not going to wreck their day.

R2-E2, 2G Prius.
Highway/City/Husband/Wife MPG: 56.5, as of 12/2005, 26K miles

Jac Nasser, Ford President: "We are planning to launch a hybrid version of
this car [P2000] within this year [1998]. We will also make FCEV available in
2004."

Absolutely. Good points.
CalCars calls their Prius a "Prius+". To me that is as simple as possible. The plus would mean that energy is added to supplement the gasoline on board and any kinetic energy the car could scavenge in transit.

It would be the same problem for pure EVs. They could not claim X miles/Gallon. It would have to be so many miles per energy unit. So a combination gas/electric might have to be described with the total amount of energy used (liquid and electric). This should be a good topic for discussion.
Thanks

Mike Maline - Sdctcher
2005 Ford Escape Hybrid Owner
California School Teacher

Mark,

I have wanted to know for a while now ..
Will a Prius+ be considered an EV, for tax purposes ?
I'm sure the kind folks at CalCars have considered this question as well.

btw, I only recently learned that Felix Kramer is the voice; Ron Gremban (sp?) is the engineering muscle.

R2-E2, 2G Prius.
Highway/City/Husband/Wife MPG: 56.5, as of 12/2005, 26K miles

Jac Nasser, Ford President: "We are planning to launch a hybrid version of
this car [P2000] within this year [1998]. We will also make FCEV available in
2004."

Good points, and my concerns are about the labeling, not the cars in general. I do think plug-in hybrids are a great idea, especially if the electricity is derived from renewable resources. However, the labeling of e.g. 100 MPG for a plug in hybrid is, well, maybe not wrong, but it's not strictly correct either. While it is accurate - strictly speaking, that a plug in hybrid may cover the first 100 miles with only one gallon of gas (and thus truly get 100 MPG in terms of gas usage), thereafter mileage (in terms of gas usage) will go down to the non-EV mileage, unless you plug it in before continuing the drive. The issue of how much energy is needed for EV ops aside, if you go on a day-long drive and cover e.g. 800 miles without stopping for re-charge, for the first 100 miles you might get 100 MPG, thereafter if it's a Prius II on a highway, you might get 45 MPG. My concern is that in terms of MPG, the mileage these plug-ins might get is a function of how far you drive them: the further (in one session), the lower your mileage. That's why I think it might be better to label them as e.g. 50 MPG +100 EV miles per trip.

In terms of overall efficiency (not gasoline based efficiency) another way of labeling might be needed. for example, one Gallon of gas could be converted to the equivalent kWh, and combined with the battery capacity. One problem is that the conversion of one gallon of gas to a kWh equivalent would depend on the efficiency of the drive train, and is obviously not a constant.

Aaarrrgghhh, our technology is advancing faster than our terminology!



M