It's possible the cold weather poor performance is due to the way the system was programed to keep the catalytic converter hot. Such a basically sheet-metal construction located under the vehicle would cool off quickly. So in winter and doing short trips especially, the hybrid frequently swills gas just to heat the converter.

On certain long descents I do, in summer the engine will stay off all the way down, while in winter the engine will start and burn gas.

I further suspect this means these hybrids run cleaner than non-hybrids that are not set up to manage the temperature of the converter. This would mean the converters of non-hybrids are more often at non-optimal temperatures and so are emitting more pollution.

Of course the hybrids burn more gas while heating the converter, and that causes pollution. There must be some sort of balancing of the net effect.

If all this makes sense, then it would mean that hybrids would get better mileage if they were set up to operate the converters the same as non-hybrids (don't) manage theirs.

Thoughts?

 

I think wbonville knows how the FEH handles cold weather, he was asking about how the Energi handles the cold weather. The fact is, you can drive the Energi from the driveway without using the engineat all. If you know when to start charging, you can heat the battery and cabin by what is called preconditioning. With the cabin heater on, the battery fans will take heated cabin air, combined with heat from the battery cells while charging from the wall Level 2 charger. Once the battery is heated and fully charged, you can drive in EV up to 20 miles without the engine ever starting. I can hypermile well into the 30 mile range before needing another charge. Ford recommends preconditioning the Energi from the wall plug in both hot and cold weather.

Gary

 

Gary,
I'm considering swapping out my 2008 FEH for a C-Max. This is a second car and I can't really afford the Energi (except as a lease, and I don't really want to do that).

I am surprised to discover that there are no posts on this site for the C-Max. I'd appreciate any advice you have on the car while I consider my decision.

 

I like my '13 Energi so much, I ordered a '15 for my son. I need another $4007 tax credit for this year, and I could use a break on his gas bill which I pay while he is in college. I have about 400 miles on my ICE in 15 months, and the oil needs changing at 20,000 miles or every 2 years. These cars are very low maintenance and have all the power you need to stay in EV all the time, not like the FEH. My wife has a lead foot, and still never gets a start-up taking off from a light.

Go to http://fordcmaxenergiforum.com/ if you want to hear what people are saying about the Energi, because they all love them. There are very few complaints and Ford has two employees at the site that will help solve any issues.

The Energi can be used for long trips in hybrid mode, or shorter trips like I prefer, all in EV. The free My Ford Mobile service allows you to monitor and start your car in EV. This morning for instance, my wife took the Energi to work and used 5 miles of EV range. I could follow her to work on my iPhone or computer to see if she got a charging parking space and was recharging. She didn't get a spot, but I seen I had 25 EV range miles left if I used the A/C, and about 30 miles without the A/C from her work. We do this to save on gas in my '11 Explorer driving around town.

The Energi is what all of us wished our FEH's could do. It doesn't come in AWD, but you can add a hitch and put a cargo box in the back for added storage. Get the 302A package with all the serious options you'll want.

Gary

 

Gary,
Thanks for the update. I'm actually looking at the normal Hybrid, not the Energi. But the 302 package is a must. I have a pretty limited budget - we already have a loan on our primary car, a 2014 Passat. So I don't think we can afford the Energi. I'm waiting to see if the Ford dealer can make the deal I need for our budget.

 

Non plug-in hybrids will be phased out soon. Sell your '08 FEH yourself for about 3 - 6K more than a dealer like I did. I got top dollar for both of mine, and they went fast.

Here is a used '13 Energi with 16,000 miles asking price is $23,000. http://fordcmaxenergiforum.com/topic...tion-for-sale/

Gary

 

Gary,
I don't think I could live with the lack of trunk space. That extra battery takes up a lot of room.

 

Question for Gary:

I'm trying to work the math on a C-MAX since the leases are really attractive right now.

The C-MAX Energi has a 7.6kWh battery with an advertised EV range of 19 miles. My local electricity cost $0.11/kWh, so completely charging that battery at home would cost me about $2 (figuring in 50% charging efficiency). That means those EV miles would cost me about $0.10/mile or less. Is that the right way to look at it? Thanks.

Please keep posting your C-MAX updates.

 

Many people considering a plug-in Volt, choose the Energi for both passenger and cargo space. The problem with the big battery is getting high storage items over it into the folded down seats where there is plenty of space. I carry around a Igloo 110qt glide cooler I got from Costco and it's tall and wide. I can still open the lid all the way open in the car to put 20lb bags of ice and groceries in while shopping. I get the cooler in through the rear doors that open wide and high. It is the high head room that is so impressive about the Energi.

There were many FEH owners that went with the C-Max Hybrid that quickly sold for the Energi. Once they got on the forums and realized what people were getting for the money, they lost a lot of money making the switch to the Energi. My advise, don't make that mistake. People don't realize what a plug-in with an engine is worth yet. The Leaf, Focus EV and all of those EV's coming out without a engine for range, are dead in the future. I think the same about hybrids that can't be plugged-in.

Gary

 

Hi Don

I haven't notice an increase in my electric bill since I got my Energi. I calculated about $.70 a charge here in Florida, and I average 28 - 30 miles per charge year around. The battery will never drop below 14.5% SOC before the engine starts charging. I don't ever like to go into Hybrid Mode at around 22.5%, but I can stay in EV down to about 18.5%, and have done that many times to avoid a cold engine start before plugging-in. When you get into Hybrid Mode, the engine will start-up like the FEH if you accelerate a little hard. That's what I hate about the C-Max Hybrid and the FEH. You can accelerate pretty hard in EV mode without the engine starting, and that's what I like about the Energi.

Many Energi owners are installing solar panels, but I don't see the need just to charge the small battery in the Energi. If I go solar, it will be because of my A/C use at home.

I think converting energy from the wall to the wheels is more like 85% efficient, but way more than 50%.

Gary