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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 07-05-2005, 05:35 PM
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Posts: 8
Default Any hacks, alternate ROMS, etc.?

I'm kinda disappointed with the electric performance of the FEH. I feel the gas engine turns on too often. Perhaps there just isn't enough electric engine power or battery power, but it is annoying how soon the gas engine kicks in. It should at least do 30 or detect a hill before calling on the gas engine.

Has anyone hacked the FEH or are there replacement ROMS that one could get?
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 07-06-2005, 04:37 AM
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Real Name: Erick
Location: Coquitlam, B.C.
Hybrids: 2001 Prius
Posts: 1,045
Default Re: Any hacks, alternate ROMS, etc.?

AFIK the FEH uses the Toyota technology, so what's happening during acceleration is the ICE come on to generate electric power for the motor to use up, instead of using up the reserve power in the battery, or in addition to the battery power depending on how fast you try to accelerate. In the Prius there's an "EV" mode that tells the car to lay off the ICE until it really needs it, as long as there's enough power in the battery. North American Prii do not have the EV button, but the HV-ECU still has the function, and all that's necessary is to hook up the right wire. There might be a way to do this in the FEH, but unless they built it that way to begin with, then it's highly unlikely that you'll be able to make it run in a forced EV mode.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 07-06-2005, 11:43 AM
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Real Name: Rich
Location: Michigan
Hybrids: 2006 Ford Escape 4WD
Posts: 1,980
Default Re: Any hacks, alternate ROMS, etc.?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dagman
I'm kinda disappointed with the electric performance of the FEH. I feel the gas engine turns on too often. Perhaps there just isn't enough electric engine power or battery power, but it is annoying how soon the gas engine kicks in. It should at least do 30 or detect a hill before calling on the gas engine.

Has anyone hacked the FEH or are there replacement ROMS that one could get?

I think there are a few factors that you're not including. I can already get up to 40 mph in EV mode (Well, 38) with no problems. Granted, I can't jackrabbit up to that on a road, but it seems that the longer you have it, the higher and "stronger" you can go. (When I first got it, I had problems accelerating normally above 5-10 mph without the ICE kicking in, I'd have to accerate slowly. Now, I can get up to 15-20 mph with a normal start from a stop without the ICE being on.)

.



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Old 07-08-2005, 02:51 PM
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Default Re: Any hacks, alternate ROMS, etc.?

One thing I heard secondhand from someone that works for Toyota is that Ford licensed parts from Toyota but not their software. Thus, I believe Ford developed their own software . . . and perhaps it is not as good.

These cars should really allow some human input. The car can make guesses as to whether I am in town and stopping frequently, acclerating onto a highway, going down a big hill, etc. But I know exactly where I am driving and I wish I could share some of my driving knowledge with the computer so it could make better decisions. For example, I really with there was an EV switch that I could turn on when I am in a downtown area filled with traffic lights. I guess I can control things a bit by being easy on the gas to prevent the ICE kicking in, but it would be much easier if I just had a little switch on the steering wheel.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2005, 03:37 PM
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Real Name: Steve
Location: Portland, OR
Hybrids: 2005 Escape Hybrid 4wd, 2002 Prius
Posts: 286
Default Re: Any hacks, alternate ROMS, etc.?

Ford developed the FEH independently from Toyota, then the lawyers came in and figured out where Ford might be infringing on Toyota patents. The result was some licensing agreements to prevent any patent lawsuits.
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Old 07-13-2005, 04:49 PM
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Default Re: Any hacks, alternate ROMS, etc.?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevewa
Ford developed the FEH independently from Toyota, then the lawyers came in and figured out where Ford might be infringing on Toyota patents. The result was some licensing agreements to prevent any patent lawsuits.
Are you sure? This story implies it is based on the same hardware . . . but this article may be very wrong too.
http://trucks.about.com/od/suvreview...bridescape.htm

I went out and quickly looked at my car to see if there were any Toyota markings. I didn't see any. There was a 'made in japan' on the battery, but that doesn't mean much.

This article makes it seem independent:
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....rticle_id=8777

A guy at the dealership said the Hybrid technology was from Toyota, but he was probably pretty clueless.

Well, I'm glad to hear that Ford has it's own technology. :-) However, it seems like it may not be as good as Toyota's yet. :-/ But then again, this is version 1.0 Hopefully it will improve. And I hope they don't have to pay much $ to Toyota. It has been very sad to watch Detroit fall behind Japan once again by getting addicted to fat SUV profits and ignoring the rise in gasoline prices that was inevitable. :-( Our low gas prices (compared to the rest of the world) has created a car market that is very different than the rest of world (except Venezuela).
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 07-14-2005, 01:23 AM
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Real Name: John
Location: Kirkland, WA
Hybrids: FEH '05
Posts: 14
Default Re: Any hacks, alternate ROMS, etc.?

Yeah, I'm sure the Toyota rumor is something that must piss off Ford engineers. The main thing that caused the patent issue was the formula of when to go gas-only, electric-only, and gas+electric. Honda's Insight did not use this formula to drive its ICE and motor. As you can see, it's really more of a concept than a particular technology. Ford realized that their system was so similar (being that if you address the problem thoroughly, that ends up being the "best answer"...for now), so they licensed the patent to avoid infringement. The magazine FastCompany had a great article about it a while back.

As far as the use of the ICE, I have noticed that Priuses are far more aggressive at shutting off their ICE when it's not necessary. I have two guesses for this: 1) the Prius ICE is much more efficient at starting/stopping than the Ford ICE, or 2) the Prius weighs as much as a small underfed child, and therefore does not need to have the ICE on "standby" as much.
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Old 07-14-2005, 08:46 AM
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Real Name: Erick
Location: Coquitlam, B.C.
Hybrids: 2001 Prius
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Default Re: Any hacks, alternate ROMS, etc.?

Actually I think Ford had to pay up to Toyota for using very similar components in the drivetrain, like the planetary gear "CVT" with 2 electric motors and the lack of any real transmission. They didn't need to get Toyota to make any components for them, but the general design was adopted first by Toyota, so as a system they hold the patents. Ford was just choosing the best system for their vehicle, and it happened to be almost the same as the one Toyota chose, besides some differences.

As far as the Prius and the gas engine, it really doesn't need it at low speed and light acceleration so it is confident about turning it off as much as possible, and in reality can start the ICE in a fraction of a second, should it need the extra watts. The first generation (US) Prius was not so eager to shut down the engine, even having the fan blowing air would keep the engine on, and the car was lighter than the new Prius, so I would say it has nothing to do with how heavy the vehicle is. It's probably more to do with the computer monitoring electric accessory load and determining if it should actively generate electricity or use up the traction battery instead. In the case of the new Prius it uses up the battery (I've watched it suck down a whole battery at idle) but the old Prius would turn on the ICE much sooner to replenish the battery, and I suspect the FEH has a similar program.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 07-14-2005, 10:26 PM
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Real Name: Steve
Location: Portland, OR
Hybrids: 2005 Escape Hybrid 4wd, 2002 Prius
Posts: 286
Default Re: Any hacks, alternate ROMS, etc.?

Actually the planetary design dates back to the 1970s.

The transaxle for the Escape/Mariner is made by Aisin, a very large maker of transmissions for automakers all over the world. They also make the same part for Toyota which may have led to some of the confusion.
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