I laughed at this (being a new hybid owner). Forget about the EPA numbers for a second and realize that ANYONE (without modifying their driving habits) can EASILY get mileage in the 40's. That, ON THE FACE of it is simply excellent and should be commended by the press, when vehicles like the Hummer H2 aren't even required to post EPA figures!

The title of the article mentioned was "Defroster, Air-Conditioning Put Dent in Hybrids' Mileage"

Let's fast-forward into the future to the first few years when fuel cells are available. Having curious nature,You find my aritcle;

"A heavy foot puts big dent in Hydrogen range"

In just the latest example of hydrogen falling short of the hype that surrounds them, it is now found out that a heavy foot seriously decreases it's range.

The hydrogens fell as much as 40 percent below the EPA range figures during my recent test. The owners of hydrogen cars have to change their driving habits to increase fuel economy, said Ron Cogan. Most drivers aren't willing to do that.

Nobody really knows how much of the time drivers enjoy gasing it. The best guess comes from Ford, which has 90-year-old research that says it's about 99 percent of the time.
Even some very enthusiastic hydrogen owners have become frustrated by the cars' failure to delivery fuel range matching the EPA numbers.

One owner complained "All I want is a **** car that lives up to its promise and won't make me out as a big fool," hydrogen owner Pete Blackshaw told us.

On the otherhand, hydrogen cars are technological marvels, a flower in our bright future.

-END

Then you read articles from places like C&D (which only got 36MPG in an HCH) reporting hydrogen is hype, Backed up by another that says hydrogen Gov. fleet cars go half as far as MFG claims? Then another that says hydrogen cars are slow? Then another ponts out a $3,000 premium isn't worth the hype...(etc etc)

Now, since they have hidden the fact that most hydrogen owners love their cars, feel that it is a good value, many are exeeding its MFG claims and are having great fun driving them, would you buy one?

I wouldn't.

Efficient drivers do it better.
1003 miles a tank personal record. 74MPG calculated. HCH1 CVT

Mark Phelan, the man who trashed the Hybrids in an article a couple of weeks ago, has a new article today:

http://www.freep.com/money/autorevie...e_20050217.htm

Here is a quote:

"Fuel economy is to hybrid owners as what horsepower is to sports car owners. They keep track of their mileage, brag about it and argue about it.

So it's no surprise that I heard from a lot of them after writing a story Feb. 3 that showed hybrids don't get the advertised mileage because activating the defroster keeps their engines from shutting down to save gasoline.

I asked those readers to keep track of their mileage for a week -- not that they needed urging. Some of them have been keeping track of their mileage since they bought their car. One reader -- Paul Valko of Oakland Township -- has a Web site with a chart showing the mileage at every fill-up since buying the car in December."

I hate to totally disagree with you, but you're totally and completely wrong. "Anyone" CANNOT "easily" get mileage in the 40's.

I've had my hybrid for 3 months and have about 3500 miles on it. I've tried every single method to improve gas mileage in the book (and posted about it on this site many times).

And currently, my overall MPG is 22.3.

So don't be so quick to laugh.

Hmm... where do you live and what kind of car do you have?

See the very first post here:
http://greenhybrid.com/discuss/showthread.php?t=1412

Hi Copyboy1:

___I cannot help you directly although I have wanted to jump into your rant thread for some time now … About the only item I can add is that either your Escape HEV is screwed up or your driving skills and setup are not where they could be for your 10 mile commute. Let that ICE run down the hill if that is what it wants to do when warming up but don’t give her any fuel. Just coast down. Until an experienced hypermiler drives YOUR Escape HEV, you can ***** all you want but from my vantage point, your complaints are a bit over the top until an experienced driver sets it up and takes it for a nice drive for a comparison. Afterwards, please post back with the results or at least wait until it does hits 65 degrees + for an extended period of time and you have more miles on her. . It appears as if the Berkeley area will have colder temps and rain this weekend so that is out but get your pressures up and go for a longer ride on Saturday afternoon between the rain with the wife and kids. Get that ICE running after the initial slow acceleration or at least coast down that monster hill you mentioned earlier and keep it running while providing propulsion unless coasting into a light, sign, or traffic dictates otherwise.

___On a similar note, Ericbecky had a day or two with in an Escape HEV in the Madison, WI. area and told me they are a bit tougher to hypermile then our Insight’s. I believe he said he averaged 27 mpg while commuting in 0 - 20 degree F temps and it was setup (incorrectly of course) as he received it from Ford. One of these days I will get my chance as well but right now, it is far too early to tell given your short trips and relatively colder temps.

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

copyboy1,

First off, it is difficult to convey to any reader on a message board that comments made to others, especially in a difficult situation such as yours is, are made in kindness, even though sometimes folks use rather firm wording to convey their belief in something.

I feel sorry for you and your current experience with you FEH. I can only hope that it will improve as the vehicle becomes broken in and the weather improves. My major for my bachelor's degree was marketing. There is a concept we call post-purchase dissonance. I think you are suffering from it. It comes in 2 varieties, dissonance which you just feeL, but can't give a reason for, and dissonance due to product expectations not being fulfilled. You definitely have the latter.

So, I purchased a Prius. I'm very happy with it. Not because of the gas mileage. I researched the vehicle a lot before I made a purchase. It was a very wonderful decision. I knew walking into it that "experience may vary". It it certainly has for me. However, my purchase was more than just fuel economy, or environmental impact, but included gadgets, competitive price, roomyness in a small package, utility and, I hate to admit, the ability to show it off to others. If my mileage wasn't as the EPA advertised, that is ok, because my stereo is great and the car catches people's eyes. Something I have never experienced before.

When it is all said and done, I hope you find more to your Escape than fuel economy. I have always liked Escapes. Their fit and finish is very good, the design is strong and Ford is basically the best of the 3 American auto manufacturers. I come from a Ford family anyway. I think things will get better for you, just give it time.

It has been said:
Hybrid drivers come in 3 flavors, greenie, techie and cheapie. Pick any 2.
2005 Prius, Melinium Silver over gray, package 5 (AI)

I am happy this thread is creating some conversation. I just want to make a couple of comments.

I wish more Insight and Prius experienced drivers would have the opportunity to test drive the Ford Hybrid. From my experience I know that regular Prius drivers have found they can be much less gentle and still get stellar MPG from their cars. In the FEH, if you want miles per hour in the 30's or higher you must play the car. It requires a lot of patience. It really is a different car. Not a worse or better car, just different because of the set up and weight. It was built for a different purpose; not to ompete with the other Non-SUV Hybrids.

I would guess that the average person out looking to buy a new SUV and thinking about the Hybrid should expect maybe 5 MPG better than the regular Escape unless they are willing to change their driving habits; if they can change habits they might expect 10 MPG more. If they want to be Greener then buying the H-Escape will also mean a contribution to the environment and a guarantee they will never again have to be smog-checked (and maybe earn a tax deduction and other perks).

I would guess that the EV or Hybrid-Experienced person would find the Hybrid Escape has more utility value than the Honda/Prius/Insight as far as off-road, passenger or cargo load, and general roominess but they will only be able to obtain about 75% or less of the miles per hour of the other Hybrids. But the Greens will know the emissions are much the same as what they are used to. And they must not forget that they also will have to drive more conservatively.

Driving conservatively also has benefits in less tickets, less accidents, lower insurance costs, and less stress after we relearn to drive.

I agree that we Hybrid Owners are doing a real service is posting information to prospective buyers. Our negatives are not driving buyers away but only back to where they should be if they will not, or cannot adapt to a new culture.

Mike

Mike Maline - Sdctcher
2005 Ford Escape Hybrid Owner
California School Teacher

I've been thinking about "balance" a lot and both sides have good points. If you go too far to the negitive, no one is going to want to buy a hybrid in the first place (not good) and if you go too far the other way by being overly positive, people are going to be disapointed (not good). It seems to me that balance is the key. I think everytime EPA numbers are published or hypermiler numbers are quoted a huge disclaimer should be issued. A list of things that negitively impact mileage should be included in the disclaimer.

Example:

HCH EPA 46/51 mpg with some getting over 60mpg. Your mileage will vary and will likely be lower. Cold weather, traffic, stop and go driving, hilly roads, warm ups, low tire pressure, hard acceleration, and fast driving tend to lower your mileage. Please use EPA figures for comparison to other cars only as they do not reflect typical results. See the "greenhybird" mileage database for real world figures.