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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 06-29-2006, 03:28 PM
gpsman1's Avatar
gpsman1 gpsman1 is offline
Hybrid Technologist
 
Real Name: John
Location: N.Colorado & S.Minnesota
Hybrids: 2005 Diet Ford Escape FWD, 2000 Honda Insight
Posts: 2,555
Default Re: Factory restriction on the Hybrid system???

The previous few posters are on the right track.
Good work using your intuitions.

The battery pack is smaller than you think.
The batteries are less than 200 pounds, but then there's the stainless steel case, electronics, cooling system, etc... that gives you nothing back...

While your cell phone may charge to nearly 100% each night, and drain to maybe 10% to 20% during the day... It only lasts about 2 years.
Your cell phone also charges gently ( over 1-4 hours ) and discharges even more gently ( over 12-16 hours ).

Your FEH battery charges in minutes, and dis-charges in minutes, using about 100 amps at a time ( about 100 household light bulbs, about 1000 cell phones... ) and is meant to last about 15 years! Pretty amazing in my book.

Yes.... 100% to 0% charge would give to 10 miles of electric only driving.
Who's ready to buy a new $3000 battery every 2 years? Not me.

Ford built a very good machine in my book. A very durable one.

-John

.

Gasabout $0.05/mi
Gasabout $0.09/mi
E85about $0.09/mi

WORLD RECORD MTE?
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2006, 08:32 AM
scmike scmike is offline
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Real Name: mike
Location: santa cruz CA
Hybrids: 06 Escape Hybrid FWD scanII
Posts: 20
Default Re: Factory restriction on the Hybrid system???

John,
I thought it was probably warranty related, I'm pretty sure these battery packs aren't going to make it 10 yrs/150K (CA) and I have my doubts about the tranny too, not to mention the ICE starter motor/interface..
About maximizing mpg's, does anybody else drive like GaryG http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=350 and is it damaging or putting undue wear to drive like that, very enlightening stuff in that article...
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2006, 11:50 AM
buyhevs buyhevs is offline
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Location: Dearborn, MI
Hybrids: Ford Escape Hybrid
Posts: 17
Default Re: Factory restriction on the Hybrid system???

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeekGal
I didn't notice any changes in the vehicle's FE or driving characteristics but the manual did say to drive it a bit after reconnecting so it could "relearn" various things.

The Ford Mustang forums which I occasionally follow since my brother and father have new Mustangs also refer to this 1k to 3k learning and improved fuel economy behavior in their vehicles. I'm no mechanic but it was something about the vehicles running "rich" for the first 1k-3k miles, and after that break-in running less so resulting in some MPG gains.
I believe that the only parameters that the powertrain relearns after you disconnect the 12V power are to support the Onboard Diagnostic monitors:

http://www.obdii.com/drivecycleford.html

Your engine will operate slightly differently as the OBD II systems verifies that all emision control systems are within specification.

I do not believe that an automaker includes any software features that would significantly impact fuel economy, and corresponding emissions; and cause/force these levels to vary between vehicle based upon driver behavior. If a vehicle were to ever get pulled in for a in-use emissions test, the automaker would want to be confident that the test results wouldn't have degraded anymore than could be accounted for due to physical wear.

Speaking of physical wear, I believe that is the first reason people are seeing increased MPG and EV range. Besides lower friction losses in the engine, the drivetrain wears in as well, making it easier to propel the vehicle and thus requiring less power.

The other reason is that there is 'learning' going on; but instead of your car learning about how you drive, you are learning how to drive it better. :^)
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2006, 11:18 AM
rihavo rihavo is offline
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Real Name: Rich
Location: Maryland
Hybrids: '05 Escape Hybrid 4wd
Posts: 129
Default Re: Factory restriction on the Hybrid system???

Quote:
Originally Posted by TeeSter
If there were a limit it would seem it could be a battery thing. Pehaps the battery behaves better after some use... IE cell phone manuals often say the battery capacity will improve after several charge discarge cycles. I suppose they could put a hard limit on current draw until they feel the battery has been conditioned enough to improve the service life of the battery etc.
If this was the case, my battery was conditioned very well before my 05 FEH had a little over 500 miles. I was working on repairing a fence and charging the battery for my cordless drill via the 120V outlet in my FEH. I forgot to turn the vehicle completely on therefore I almost completely drained my 330V battery while charging the battery for the drill. Luckily I had discovered my error before any damage was done. But I had discovered this after the charge indicator on my NAV unit revealed no voltage in the battery.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2006, 11:23 AM
rihavo rihavo is offline
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Real Name: Rich
Location: Maryland
Hybrids: '05 Escape Hybrid 4wd
Posts: 129
Default Re: Factory restriction on the Hybrid system???

Quote:
Originally Posted by scmike
Hi, I think I noticed the same thing driving our FEH, I was only able to get to 30 in the first 1k and now it seems I can push 35 on the flats.. It would be nice if we (hybrid drivers) could lock out the ICE while in town and monitor a battery guage to hopefully prevent battery damage.. Don't our cars go to EV only when they run out of gas, and how far will the PCM allow them to go in EV only?? Sorry if I've raised some old questions since I'm new to this forum and still getting the feel of it..
Thanks
Mike
I don't think anyone would fault you for asking. But one of this forum's members have created a string explaining what happened and what he experienced when he has run out of gas. You may want to look at it if you haven't done so already as it is very informative and answered some of my questions as well.

Rich
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2006, 11:33 AM
rihavo rihavo is offline
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Real Name: Rich
Location: Maryland
Hybrids: '05 Escape Hybrid 4wd
Posts: 129
Default Re: Factory restriction on the Hybrid system???

Quote:
Originally Posted by TeeSter
I get my 2miles from a post elsewhere by gpsman1. I can't guarantee accuracy but from the posts he's put up here, I'd say he knows what he's talking about.:

>I have run out of gas twice.
>The battery will drain further than the typical 40%, but the exact SOC is unknown... >but it is a very low level.

>If you are in a "normal" condition for EV, then you get the full 0-40 miles per hour.
>BEFORE SOME SENSOR TRIPS...

>AFTER some failsafe sensor trips, the FEH enters "limp home mode" and you are >computer limited to 22 miles per hour.

>Gary had a unique, not typical occurance.
>In most cases, if you run out of gas, you will get 0-22 miles per hour and 0-2 miles
I'm glad to see you quoting gpsman1, since he was the one I was referring to in my previous post. But there is another key element he has referred to in his posts too. He drives an 05 FED FWD model.

I'm not trying to belittle anyone, but we just need to keep these items in mind when reviewing any information.

As for the 2 mile range for battery usage in EV mode - it is also in the manual. Though it can be streched out by gliding. I've been able to pulse and glide for about 5 - 8 miles in EV mode while driving down a slight incline.
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