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Just got back from a trip between California, NM, Colorado, and Arizona - 10 days. Average speed on the freeways was about 80 MPH. Average MPG for the trip was 26.83. I'm satisfied with that considering the speed. When I wasn't on the Interstate, I was going up and down hills, generally at around 65 MPH.
This is my first road trip in 3 years; I bought the FEH primarily for in town mileage. Since it is around 30% better than an ICE compact SUV in town (and about the same on the road), I'm pleased.
The engine is not afraid to go up to redline; I observed over 6K RPM several times. Max (estimated) water temp sometimes got to 205.
In my observation going much above 60-65 eats fuel. I just did a trip into & around Yellowstone NP. The speed limits there are 45 with lots of 35s & 25s.
Average mpg for the trip was 38.4.
I've observed that the altitude makes a real difference in mpg.
There are postings of mpgs of 50-60. After 100,000 miles I've concluded that those numbers are "rally numbers." Specifically, they are individual runs, across known terrain, & with a low & nearly constant speed.
What I believe is that they are not total miles divided by total gallons in a real world situation.
In my observation going much above 60-65 eats fuel. I just did a trip into & around Yellowstone NP. The speed limits there are 45 with lots of 35s & 25s.
Average mpg for the trip was 38.4.
I've observed that the altitude makes a real difference in mpg.
There are postings of mpgs of 50-60. After 100,000 miles I've concluded that those numbers are "rally numbers." Specifically, they are individual runs, across known terrain, & with a low & nearly constant speed.
What I believe is that they are not total miles divided by total gallons in a real world situation.
So, attacking someone who can get better mileage than you is the answer. If you don't understand hypermiling techniques, it's not a sin but don't assume you can justify why. Here is my mileage log and I proved my hypermiling skills in public at the '07 MPG Challenge that was covered by the media including "Good Morning America". I can do without a grease monkey's opinion how I get 60mpg. The Mileage Log is based on gallons pumped divided by the miles driven! http://www.cleanmpg.com/index.php?pa...9&viewcar=2612
In my observation going much above 60-65 eats fuel. I just did a trip into & around Yellowstone NP. The speed limits there are 45 with lots of 35s & 25s.
Average mpg for the trip was 38.4.
I've observed that the altitude makes a real difference in mpg.
There are postings of mpgs of 50-60. After 100,000 miles I've concluded that those numbers are "rally numbers." Specifically, they are individual runs, across known terrain, & with a low & nearly constant speed.
What I believe is that they are not total miles divided by total gallons in a real world situation.
At 45 - 50 MPH I would have gotten well over 30 MPG. But it is often 20 - 30 miles between towns out west, and I decided that my time was worth the lower mileage. It was 804 miles between my front door in California and the hotel in Albuquerque. I wasn't going to go slow over such a distance...
EDIT: I don't think those high MPG are "rally numbers". It is quite possible to get that kind of mileage on the Gen 2 FEH, if one follows the hypermiling rules to the extreme (in town of course, the highway mileage really can't be altered except by speed).
That's precisely my point. If you can't show those numbers over the life of the car then those folks are cherry picking the numbers.
It's fun to do, it's a challenge to see just what kind of mileage you can wring out of this hybrid system, & we learn something from those who do this stuff.
...But its not real life where people commute to work, take the family to a national park, tow a trailer, clean out the garage and take that junk to the dump, carry a bunch of Boy Scouts to summer camp, & all the other stuff we do with cars.
In the real world these things average somewhere around 35 mpg, summer, 28 mpg, winter, & 22 mpg towing. It takes a certain amount of BTUs, joules, or whatever, to haul around the several thousand pounds of car. The battery stores & releases BTUs for us, but it doesn't create them.
So tell me (smile) when you were walking to school: was it downhill both ways?
That's precisely my point. If you can't show those numbers over the life of the car then those folks are cherry picking the numbers.
It's fun to do, it's a challenge to see just what kind of mileage you can wring out of this hybrid system, & we learn something from those who do this stuff.
...But its not real life where people commute to work, take the family to a national park, tow a trailer, clean out the garage and take that junk to the dump, carry a bunch of Boy Scouts to summer camp, & all the other stuff we do with cars.
In the real world these things average somewhere around 35 mpg, summer, 28 mpg, winter, & 22 mpg towing. It takes a certain amount of BTUs, joules, or whatever, to haul around the several thousand pounds of car. The battery stores & releases BTUs for us, but it doesn't create them.
So tell me (smile) when you were walking to school: was it downhill both ways?
I don't know what activities GaryG does, and in fact he does live in Florida (parts of which are very flat). But I don't think he is giving "rally" numbers; those are his day-to-day figures.
In my experience MPG on really flat terrain is somewhat less than rolling terrain. I believe this related to an absence of fuel cutoff while coasting since the terrain is so flat.
he posted a link to some of his numbers on another website. What struck me was that every run was at 30 mph and there seemed to be no total of gallons & miles. Hence my use of the word "rally."
At the end of the day I find his numbers interesting but without connection to reality.
Like I said, those kind of numbers are fun to generate, but do not represent the real world. Either he is onto something like perpetual motion or he's cherry picking the numbers.
There used to be a competition where you were allowed to do anything to a car or its engine to go the farthest on exactly one gallon of gasoline. No holds barred. There were some, as I recall, that got something like 200 miles on that gallon. But in the end the things done to get the prize were never really workable in a car of any utility.
So I use the phrase "rally numbers" to refer to his numbers.
In my experience MPG on really flat terrain is somewhat less than rolling terrain. I believe this related to an absence of fuel cutoff while coasting since the terrain is so flat.
he posted a link to some of his numbers on another website. What struck me was that every run was at 30 mph and there seemed to be no total of gallons & miles. Hence my use of the word "rally."
At the end of the day I find his numbers interesting but without connection to reality.
Like I said, those kind of numbers are fun to generate, but do not represent the real world. Either he is onto something like perpetual motion or he's cherry picking the numbers.
There used to be a competition where you were allowed to do anything to a car or its engine to go the farthest on exactly one gallon of gasoline. No holds barred. There were some, as I recall, that got something like 200 miles on that gallon. But in the end the things done to get the prize were never really workable in a car of any utility.
So I use the phrase "rally numbers" to refer to his numbers.
Bill, you're not reading or understanding that sites Mileage Log correctly. My log started the first mile put on my '09 FEH at the factory, to the dealer until I made the last entry of my last fill-up. In other words, the distance on the first page of the log where everyone's vehicle is viewed under HYBRIDS, my '09 FEH is there and I have 29,743.2 miles logged there which was the total miles seen on my permanent OD at that time. The mileage you see in the link I provided is just for those tanks. If you add all the mileages of all those tanks, it will be the same on my OD at the time of my last fill-up. The 30mph average speed is the estimated average speed of the vehicle for that tank from the last fill-up. If you divide that tanks mileage by the gallons of gas pumped, you will see it matches the MPG average to the far left for that tank. The last tank Logged says I got a 65.019mpg tank and went 884.2 miles on 13.599 gallons of E10. The total amount of gas I've burned is listed on the main Log page and is every drop pumped into my '09 FEH since the first mile. That is a true Lifetime MPG when your total miles are divided by the total gallons pumped into my '09 FEH. The day of my last log, I had a 53.872 LMPG average, lifetime gas burned was 552.107 gallons over 29,743.2 lifetime miles. The EPA gave my FWD '09 FEH a combined city/highway 32.5mpg average and I'm presently averaging 165.76% of that. I have to deal with many cold start-ups and short trips like everyone here. Flat roads with no rolling hills are the worst conditions for MPG like you stated.
I drive everywhere north and south from my home for up to 100 miles making new deliveries for our business in my FEH. Lately, I've been driving my wife's new Explorer because it is so fun to drive and I can average 28 - 30mpg with the A/C. I don't run the A/C in my FEH. My Explorer is shared with my wife, but the LMPG is 23.9mpg, My son started hypermiling as a condition for getting him a '12 Focus and he now has a LMPG of 33.5mpg logged at http://www.cleanmpg.com/ Here is the main page of the mileage log: http://www.cleanmpg.com/index.php?pa...um=50&sort=poe
Gary posted a video on the internet that his son filmed. The video was not able to display a scanguage numbers while driving. It did reveal posted speed limit signs and his real world experiences. I will leave it at that.
As for worst MPG conditions: try a cold start, short trip with multiple hours between another startup, in the dead of the winter with minus zero temperatures. Good for dropping your mileage reports like a rock sinking in a pond.
2005 4WD Escape Hybrid
Best Interstatetank trip E20 MPG 34.6 for 271 miles along I-80 in Indiana and Ohio. May 2008
Best multiple road tank trip E20 MPG 36.2 for 202 miles in Southwestern Pa. July 2008.
Best multiple road tank trip E50 38.1 MG for 246 miles in Northern Wisconsin Aug 2012
Gary posted a video on the internet that his son filmed. The video was not able to display a scanguage numbers while driving. It did reveal posted speed limit signs and his real world experiences. I will leave it at that.
As for worst MPG conditions: try a cold start, short trip with multiple hours between another startup, in the dead of the winter with minus zero temperatures. Good for dropping your mileage reports like a rock sinking in a pond.
That is all true Billy, including the cold weather I don't have thank God!. Here is a photo I posted during my last tank of my real World OD and Nav MPG reading:
MPG on recent road trip
