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  #161 (permalink)  
Old 05-07-2010, 09:33 AM
Enthusiast
 
Posts: 5
Default Re: "Stop Safely Now"

My problem has been resolved... and you won't believe what it was.

After months of working on my vehicle and several helpful posts and advice from this board... I finally figured it out. The only problem with my FEH was a loose battery cable. My original battery terminal got eaten away by some stray acid and had to be replaced about a year ago. Well the positive battery cable is now a little shorter than it was before and had to be stretched to reach the positive terminal.

Because of the way it was stretched and fitted it appeared to be snug when you tugged on it just a bit, I would say it was just caught on the close side of the terminal clamp. After some careful observation a friend of mine noticed that one of the screws on the clamp was loose and would intermittently lose connection.

Thank you all for your kind words and willigness to help!
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  #162 (permalink)  
Old 05-08-2010, 08:07 AM
Enthusiast
 
Real Name: Richard Kerver
Hybrids: 2005 Ford Escape Hybrid
Posts: 2
Default Re: "Stop Safely Now"

I was driving my 2005 Ford Escape Hybrid April 1, 2010, west bound on I-90 in Massachusetts when the first incident happened. The "Powertrain Control Module" (PCM) displayed a "Stop Safely Now" message and then proceeded to shut down the vehicle. I was forced, without power, to traverse 3 lanes of high speed, high volume traffic, to the shoulder. The message and vehicle shut-down repeated several more times before I took it in to the Ford Dealership where I bought it. At first they were unable to repair.

The initial diagnostics and repair involved replacing the motor electronics (MEC) pump. That only made the problem worse - indeed, the vehicle would not drive at all before receiving the "Stop Safely Now" and vehicle shutdown message. The dealership then said I had front end damage and would have to replace the radiators. That's when I called a stop to the repair work and began to take some independent steps that led to an effective repair:
1> online research, including:
http://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/f...ely-now-11900/
http://www.underhoodservice.com/Arti...herex2019.aspx
http://www.arfc.org/complaints/2006/ford/escape_hybrid/
2> Two letters to the service manager at my dealership
3> A call to the Ford Customer Relationship Center at 800-392-3673
4> Reporting my vehicle to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/

-- Begin Letter --
To: Dave, service advisor for Ford Escape Hybrid
From: Owner of FEH with PCM "Stop Safely Now" & shut-down problem
Re: Further suggestions for diagnosis & repair

Dave, I took the liberty of locating & speaking with Mark E Smith, a very knowledgeable person on this issue. FYI, Mark is an owner of a '07 Ford Escape 2wd, owner of a Car Service Center, and a Master Certified Technician. He had the same problem, successfully diagnosed & repaired his vehicle. Going further, he posted online and has helped numerous others with the same problem. I spoke at length with him about my problem, and he provided a lot of useful information.

Here are some notes from my conversation, which may be useful in your further testing, diagnosis & repair of my vehicle:
- of the codes:
P0A08 (DC to DC)
P1A0E (motor disabled)
P1A14 (transmission disabled)
P1A0D (generator disabled)
P1A0F (vehicle disabled)
P1A10 (battery disabled)
- only the P0A08 (DC to DC) is a real code; takes from 330 to 12 volts; is indicative of the relays; DC-DC converter may be overheating, and can result from the contacts (relays); 12V battery must be fully charged to test correctly; must do a thorough check, no guessing, and follow the HH chart in the service manual
- technicians don't always follow diagnostic charts, and a rigorous use of the charts is needed to correctly diagnose & repair this situation; but still may not be enough - there are loopholes in the diagnostic charts; may need to consult those
engineers who write the manuals and know about the situation
- need to run the HH pinpoint tests on pg 5-194 of the 2007 service manual; HH chart is long & involved; make sure to follow all the steps; other diagnostic tests related to temperature readings may need to be referenced; pay careful attention; big battery has to be at least 35% charged as well; dont' do diagnostics until the batteries are both fully charged - check it & charge it if needed
- replace all the relays with ford standard relay parts - they're only about $14 a pop; contacts get corroded, so can't even perform diagnostic tests properly; a good starting point
- transaxle can overheat and cause some problems - related to MECS; put hand on MECS pump to see if its working - will vibrate; the pump can also have some bad contacts, causing the it to not work, because its not getting a closed electric circuit to do so
- check the relays on the big battery too, replace them if any sign of corrosion
- the orange plug on the big battery, take up carpet, turn and pull up, check for corrosion on the contacts, then re-seat
- given vehicle symptoms, believes there was an intermittent contact problem, made worse when the MECS pump was replaced; there has to be adequate voltage to the MEC pump, a full and complete DC circuit
- there are two radiators in car, one for engine, one for electronics; its not possible for it be a radiator problem; would need to drive for 30 minutes to heat up before that problem surfaced; so, no its not the radiator or fan in this case
- need to physically ascertain if the MEC pump is actually working, turning & pumping; possible its not getting power; solve that before going to the next step; there's a sensor involved - motor electronics temperature sensor (MET Sensor); refer to the 5th step on HH chart; 65 degrees is threshold operational temperature
- just because test light comes on is not enough, the MEC pump may still not be getting sufficient current

You may also get a call from the Ford Customer Relationship Center, who I have called. I have asked for the involvement of a qualified field service engineer, with experience with the whole MECS, ET cooling, harness, relay, PCM, "Stop Safely Now" & shut-down problem. I called the CRC because I now consider this to be a design & manufacturing problem. Please refer to TSB 09-18-06 - 2005 -2007 Escape Hybrid, 2006 - 2007 Mariner Hybrid - Instrumentation Warnings - Reduced Engine Power:
Some 2005 - 2007 Escape Hybrid vehicles built from 10/13/2003 to 12/19/2006 and Mariner Hybrid vehicles built from 6/10/2005 to 10/11/2006 may have a red triangle illuminated on the cluster accompanied by an audible chime. In addition, the message center will indicate "Stop Safely Now" and the Powertrain Control Module will command the vehicle to shut down. Diagnostic trouble code P0A27 for Hybrid Battery Power Off Circuit will also be present. Refer to the attached TSB 09-18-06 in its entirety and follow the service procedures to correct the condition. This service procedure replaces Customer Satisfaction Program 07B48 which expired on 8/22/09."

As a customer, I never received the Customer Satisfaction Program 07B48 communication. Regardless, given the serious safety issues involved, Ford should have done a recall for this problem.

Thanks for working on this to the best of your abilities. Call anytime. Regards & best wishes.
-- End Letter --

The result of all this was my FEH fully repaired with no additional costs. The dealership halted the repair of my front end and radiators, as a false diagnostic. I had only some cosmetic cheap plastic bumper damage that was inflated, and which may have been deceptively used to scam my insurance company for unnecessary repairs.

Its difficult to say in retrospect how much was deception and how much was ignorance. In both cases, the demand "for the involvement of a qualified field service engineer," may be effective in bringing the necessary diagnostics to bear on the problem. The second time in required only the correct diagnosis, location and replacement of one of the relays.

I want to thank Mark and others who posted here for the help provided - I believe you saved me a bundle in additional unnecessary repair work. For others encountering this problem, I suggest taking all 4 steps outlined above; restated:
1> understand your vehicle and the problem involved; don't be left to the mercy of anyone when you're faced with costly repairs; second opinions matter
2> write your Ford service manager and ask for a qualified field service engineer - you have a right to that; the hybrid is a new breed of vehicle, with a lot of complexity and it takes a knowledgeable experienced technician to make a correct diagnosis of the many associated problems underlying the PCM "Stop Safely Now" message
3> complain directly to Ford, so these problems get inventoried and they get involved in the repair; I have only 23,250 miles on my '05 FEH, way too early for the car to be having mechanical failure due to usage alone
4> do the nhtsa.dot.gov complaint; I still believe that its a design or manufacturing defect; the costs for repair should not be born by FEH owners; given the vehicle shut-down, it is a safely issue.

Good luck!
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  #163 (permalink)  
Old 05-08-2010, 10:27 AM
Feral Engineer
 
Real Name: Tom
Location: Detroit Area
Hybrids: 2007 Escape
Posts: 440
Default Re: "Stop Safely Now"

Quote:
Originally Posted by bvgillis View Post
My problem has been resolved... and you won't believe what it was.....................
I think there is an important lesson here. This experience coupled with GaryG's warning about the relays that fail makes you realize that any sudden issue is probably a simple connection issue as opposed to a complex electronic failure. I worked in the industry and observed that when cars first went to electronic ignitions, these units were replaced under warranty like crazy. Examination of failed units showed that 99% were just fine. Mechanics found it an easy out to blame the electronics as opposed to doing a diligent diagnosis. Given the ridiculous prices for some replacement parts on the FEH, it pays to insist that the mechanics don't go into a parts changing mode, especially on parts that are several thousand dollars each, or more.
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  #164 (permalink)  
Old 05-16-2010, 08:28 PM
Enthusiast
 
Hybrids: FEH 07 AWD
Posts: 2
Default Re: "Stop Safely Now"

Greetings,

Found this site using a Google search for "stop safely now". I bought a used 07 FEH AWD that was operated as a fleet vehicle to about 65k miles on it. Aside from a few instrument cluster lights being burnt out, there was nothing I or mechanic could find wrong with the car before I bought it (from a Honda dealer who bought it at auction according to carfax).

After becoming acquainted to the vehicle with a few days of driving around the countryside, I drove it from Johnson City, TN to Orlando, FL without issue. I then drove from Orlando to Tampa again flawless. An hour ago I went to a McDonalds while it was raining here in Tampa, and when my windshield started to fog up while stopped in the drive thru I engaged the defrost... triggering a "Stop Safely Now" message with the red triangle of doom. I got my food and coasted to a parking space, put it in park, and it fired right up when I started it with no issues on the way back home.

I had my car inspected by my local Ford dealership, Ramey Ford/Lincoln/Mercury of Johnson City, TN, prior to making this drive and they reported no issues. I'm not sure if they are familiar with hybrids at all, I don't think any of the Ford dealerships within an hour of my home are. I have a feeling they didn't even check the battery or air filter in the back.

Is this message something I should be concerned about, or should I consider it a fluke? Is the rain possibly causing some type of short? (the 1,000 miles or so I put on the car since buying it have been in 99% non-rain conditions) The only thing I was able to find wrong on my own is the air filter for the battery is a little dirty. No one here carries them so I'll have to wait till I get back home and order one. It is a little over 75 degrees out with much hotter temperatures on the way here which I had no issues driving though, so I have doubts the air filter was the cause of the issue.

Any feedback is appreciated!
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  #165 (permalink)  
Old 05-17-2010, 05:28 PM
gpsman1's Avatar
Hybrid and Ethanol Expert
 
Real Name: John
Location: All over the Central U.S.
Hybrids: 2005 Ford Escape FWD, 2000 Honda Insight
Posts: 3,546
Default Re: "Stop Safely Now"

Anything that occurs once, should be considered a fluke.
Twice, is a coincidence.

If it occurs three or more times, have it examined.
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  #166 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2011, 09:24 AM
Enthusiast
 
Real Name: Rick
Hybrids: 2008 Mercury Mariner
Posts: 3
Default Re: "Stop Safely Now"

I have recently experienced the "STOP SAFELY NOW" and red triangle on the freeway at random on a recent trip in my 2008 MMH, without any overheating of the hybrid systems or any other warnings on the dashboard. The car restarted immediately each time after stopping in the breakdown lane. I reported the incidents to NHTSA (ODI # 10374725). After reading complaints on this forum and other sites, I checked the MECS pump and it was working fine, with coolant flowing properly. I took the car to the dealer on the next day and was told that the MECS pump needed to be replaced at a cost of $600. I refused the repair, but ordered a MECS pump online from Kearny Pearson Ford for $166.37 (since there are many reports that these go bad eventually). I just cannot see how 1.3 hours to diagnose and replace brings the cost to $600. However, based on the symptoms of my car, I don't think this unsafe condition will go away. It is most likely the false code that causes shutdown, as described in Ford's "Customer Satisfaction Program 07B48". I could not find the complete TSB 09-18-6 attached in a previous post, so can someone please post a link to it?

It appears that Ford tried to patch the false code engine shutdown issue with "CSP 07B48", then shifted the burden of mostly misdiagnosed repairs to us, giving their dealerships an opportunity to gouge their customers.

Given that this is a serious public safety issue with all FEH/MMH cars and nothing to do with "Customer Satisfaction", I think a recall is long overdue -- even before the minimum NHTSA quotas for injuries and deaths is reached. Can we start a petition? Class action suit? Any other ideas?

Also, how can we make all unsuspecting Ford/Mercury Hybrid owners aware of the problem and save lives?

Thanks to all the people who have posted so far.
-Rick
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  #167 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2011, 04:00 PM
Enthusiast
 
Real Name: Richard Kerver
Hybrids: 2005 Ford Escape Hybrid
Posts: 2
Default Re: "Stop Safely Now"

Quote:
Originally Posted by aristos55 View Post
I have recently experienced the "STOP SAFELY NOW" and red triangle on the freeway...
... Given that this is a serious public safety issue with all FEH/MMH cars and nothing to do with "Customer Satisfaction", I think a recall is long overdue -- even before the minimum NHTSA quotas for injuries and deaths is reached. Can we start a petition? Class action suit? Any other ideas?
-Rick
I reiterate the 4 steps I outlined 5-8-2010:
1> understand your vehicle and the problem involved; don't be left to the mercy of anyone when you're faced with costly repairs; second opinions matter
2> write your Ford service manager and ask for a qualified field service engineer - you have a right to that; the hybrid is a new breed of vehicle, with a lot of complexity and it takes a knowledgeable experienced technician to make a correct diagnosis of the many associated problems underlying the PCM "Stop Safely Now" message
3> complain directly to Ford, so these problems get inventoried and they get involved in the repair; I have only 23,250 miles on my '05 FEH, way too early for the car to be having mechanical failure due to usage alone
4> do the nhtsa.dot.gov complaint; I still believe that its a design or manufacturing defect; the costs for repair should not be born by FEH owners; given the vehicle shut-down, it is a safely issue.

While I understand your appeal, I suggest adding in more frustration will be very unrewarding. Simply do the nhtsa.dot.gov complaint and forget about it.

FYI, since the last repair (one relay), I have not experienced any problems.
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  #168 (permalink)  
Old 01-13-2011, 11:11 AM
Enthusiast
 
Real Name: Rick
Hybrids: 2008 Mercury Mariner
Posts: 3
Default Re: "Stop Safely Now"

Richard,

As I posted above, I have already registered a complaint with NHTSA. I have also talked with someone at Ford, who claimed that he had not heard of this problem before. Then, I appropriately completed the survey they sent me. Apparently, nothing has been learned at Ford since the Pinto...

After 5 model years and a multitude of incidents, this and other related problems with these hybrid cars should have been resolved. In the meantime, all design and manufacturing defects that threaten public safety should be covered by Ford, regardless of warranty terms. It is unfortunate that car companies must be forced to do so after a certain accumulation of injuries and deaths.

Except for rare catastrophic mechanical or electrical events, it is unacceptable to have sudden total power loss at random. In the case of actual hybrid components overheating (i.e., due to actual MECS pump failure), the STOP SAFELY NOW message should precede any commanded partial or total power loss -- giving the driver ample warning to pull over. Actually, only hybrid power should be reduced or turned off in this case. False codes, bad relays, corroded connectors, etc., should never be programmed to have the ECM/PCM or any other controller shut the gas engine off.

Until the problem with my car is satisfactorily resolved, I cannot allow my kids to drive the car. I also avoid travelling in the passing lane, or in heavy traffic, and constantly plan for a spot to coast to a stop when it suddenly becomes necessary -- it gets to be very inconvenient and tiring to drive this car now. Needless to say, the utility of the car has been greatly diminished.

I will try to contact Ford engineers next.

-Rick
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  #169 (permalink)  
Old 01-17-2011, 02:29 PM
StMos's Avatar
Enthusiast
 
Real Name: Stephen
Location: New Jersey
Hybrids: '06 Mercury Mariner; '08 Saturn Vue
Posts: 36
Default Re: "Stop Safely Now"

Rick, please update us, hopefully with some good news. I'd love to help if I can.
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  #170 (permalink)  
Old 01-28-2011, 07:09 PM
Enthusiast
 
Hybrids: 2007 Ford Escape Hybrid
Posts: 1
Smile Re: "Stop Safely Now"

Quote:
Originally Posted by arkmundi View Post
I was driving my 2005 Ford Escape Hybrid April 1, 2010, west bound on I-90 in Massachusetts when the first incident happened. The "Powertrain Control Module" (PCM) displayed a "Stop Safely Now" message and then proceeded to shut down the vehicle. I was forced, without power, to traverse 3 lanes of high speed, high volume traffic, to the shoulder. The message and vehicle shut-down repeated several more times before I took it in to the Ford Dealership where I bought it. At first they were unable to repair.

The initial diagnostics and repair involved replacing the motor electronics (MEC) pump. That only made the problem worse - indeed, the vehicle would not drive at all before receiving the "Stop Safely Now" and vehicle shutdown message. The dealership then said I had front end damage and would have to replace the radiators. That's when I called a stop to the repair work and began to take some independent steps that led to an effective repair:
1> online research, including:
http://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/f...ely-now-11900/
http://www.underhoodservice.com/Arti...herex2019.aspx
http://www.arfc.org/complaints/2006/ford/escape_hybrid/
2> Two letters to the service manager at my dealership
3> A call to the Ford Customer Relationship Center at 800-392-3673
4> Reporting my vehicle to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/

-- Begin Letter --
To: Dave, service advisor for Ford Escape Hybrid
From: Owner of FEH with PCM "Stop Safely Now" & shut-down problem
Re: Further suggestions for diagnosis & repair

Dave, I took the liberty of locating & speaking with Mark E Smith, a very knowledgeable person on this issue. FYI, Mark is an owner of a '07 Ford Escape 2wd, owner of a Car Service Center, and a Master Certified Technician. He had the same problem, successfully diagnosed & repaired his vehicle. Going further, he posted online and has helped numerous others with the same problem. I spoke at length with him about my problem, and he provided a lot of useful information.

Here are some notes from my conversation, which may be useful in your further testing, diagnosis & repair of my vehicle:
- of the codes:
P0A08 (DC to DC)
P1A0E (motor disabled)
P1A14 (transmission disabled)
P1A0D (generator disabled)
P1A0F (vehicle disabled)
P1A10 (battery disabled)
- only the P0A08 (DC to DC) is a real code; takes from 330 to 12 volts; is indicative of the relays; DC-DC converter may be overheating, and can result from the contacts (relays); 12V battery must be fully charged to test correctly; must do a thorough check, no guessing, and follow the HH chart in the service manual
- technicians don't always follow diagnostic charts, and a rigorous use of the charts is needed to correctly diagnose & repair this situation; but still may not be enough - there are loopholes in the diagnostic charts; may need to consult those
engineers who write the manuals and know about the situation
- need to run the HH pinpoint tests on pg 5-194 of the 2007 service manual; HH chart is long & involved; make sure to follow all the steps; other diagnostic tests related to temperature readings may need to be referenced; pay careful attention; big battery has to be at least 35% charged as well; dont' do diagnostics until the batteries are both fully charged - check it & charge it if needed
- replace all the relays with ford standard relay parts - they're only about $14 a pop; contacts get corroded, so can't even perform diagnostic tests properly; a good starting point
- transaxle can overheat and cause some problems - related to MECS; put hand on MECS pump to see if its working - will vibrate; the pump can also have some bad contacts, causing the it to not work, because its not getting a closed electric circuit to do so
- check the relays on the big battery too, replace them if any sign of corrosion
- the orange plug on the big battery, take up carpet, turn and pull up, check for corrosion on the contacts, then re-seat
- given vehicle symptoms, believes there was an intermittent contact problem, made worse when the MECS pump was replaced; there has to be adequate voltage to the MEC pump, a full and complete DC circuit
- there are two radiators in car, one for engine, one for electronics; its not possible for it be a radiator problem; would need to drive for 30 minutes to heat up before that problem surfaced; so, no its not the radiator or fan in this case
- need to physically ascertain if the MEC pump is actually working, turning & pumping; possible its not getting power; solve that before going to the next step; there's a sensor involved - motor electronics temperature sensor (MET Sensor); refer to the 5th step on HH chart; 65 degrees is threshold operational temperature
- just because test light comes on is not enough, the MEC pump may still not be getting sufficient current

You may also get a call from the Ford Customer Relationship Center, who I have called. I have asked for the involvement of a qualified field service engineer, with experience with the whole MECS, ET cooling, harness, relay, PCM, "Stop Safely Now" & shut-down problem. I called the CRC because I now consider this to be a design & manufacturing problem. Please refer to TSB 09-18-06 - 2005 -2007 Escape Hybrid, 2006 - 2007 Mariner Hybrid - Instrumentation Warnings - Reduced Engine Power:
Some 2005 - 2007 Escape Hybrid vehicles built from 10/13/2003 to 12/19/2006 and Mariner Hybrid vehicles built from 6/10/2005 to 10/11/2006 may have a red triangle illuminated on the cluster accompanied by an audible chime. In addition, the message center will indicate "Stop Safely Now" and the Powertrain Control Module will command the vehicle to shut down. Diagnostic trouble code P0A27 for Hybrid Battery Power Off Circuit will also be present. Refer to the attached TSB 09-18-06 in its entirety and follow the service procedures to correct the condition. This service procedure replaces Customer Satisfaction Program 07B48 which expired on 8/22/09."

As a customer, I never received the Customer Satisfaction Program 07B48 communication. Regardless, given the serious safety issues involved, Ford should have done a recall for this problem.

Thanks for working on this to the best of your abilities. Call anytime. Regards & best wishes.
-- End Letter --

The result of all this was my FEH fully repaired with no additional costs. The dealership halted the repair of my front end and radiators, as a false diagnostic. I had only some cosmetic cheap plastic bumper damage that was inflated, and which may have been deceptively used to scam my insurance company for unnecessary repairs.

Its difficult to say in retrospect how much was deception and how much was ignorance. In both cases, the demand "for the involvement of a qualified field service engineer," may be effective in bringing the necessary diagnostics to bear on the problem. The second time in required only the correct diagnosis, location and replacement of one of the relays.

I want to thank Mark and others who posted here for the help provided - I believe you saved me a bundle in additional unnecessary repair work. For others encountering this problem, I suggest taking all 4 steps outlined above; restated:
1> understand your vehicle and the problem involved; don't be left to the mercy of anyone when you're faced with costly repairs; second opinions matter
2> write your Ford service manager and ask for a qualified field service engineer - you have a right to that; the hybrid is a new breed of vehicle, with a lot of complexity and it takes a knowledgeable experienced technician to make a correct diagnosis of the many associated problems underlying the PCM "Stop Safely Now" message
3> complain directly to Ford, so these problems get inventoried and they get involved in the repair; I have only 23,250 miles on my '05 FEH, way too early for the car to be having mechanical failure due to usage alone
4> do the nhtsa.dot.gov complaint; I still believe that its a design or manufacturing defect; the costs for repair should not be born by FEH owners; given the vehicle shut-down, it is a safely issue.

Good luck!
Hello,

Yours and other posts on http://GreenHybrid.com were very helpful. Our POA27 "Stop Safely Now" occurred on 26 Dec 2010. We towed the car to Riviera Maya Ford, in Playa del Carmen (just South of Cancun, Mexico) which is under the same ownership as Cancun.

2007 Escape Hybrid Repair in Playa Del Carmen Mexico
is a youtube.com video created by Rusty Homer Bunn III, a Senior Master Technician and Ford trained hybrid technician EXPERIENCED in the RECALL/TSB 09-18-06 issue. The link is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4D-4...feature=autofb

More information on http://OurTimeshareRentals.com/ford.htm which I hope to update after recovering from the 11 day search to find a mechanic willing to fly to Mexico to fix our car while Ford Motor Company insisted our ONLY option was to tow the vehicle more than 2,000 miles to the United States.

Thanks again for all the helpful comments on this forum that helped us diagnose the problem.

Last edited by flexible; 01-28-2011 at 07:12 PM.
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Old 01-28-2011, 07:09 PM
 
 
 
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