wrench light
#11
03-09-2013, 08:26 AM
Re: wrench light
I took my '07 FEH to the dealer. They said it wants a fan kit and the blend door repair. They gave me an estimate of over $1600 and said it was NOT covered by 'Hybrid Unique Components' warrenty.
I'm currently fighting it. If you try to argue the point with the SA, they refer you to corporate cutomer service. I called them and they read me the warranty which says it covers 'the following parts Battery, DC-DC converter & CV Transmission' for 8 years or 100k miles. They say 'see, the fan isn't listed'.
Of course the fan is part of the battery assembly.
Eventually the CSR ageed to 'escalate' it and gave me a case #. She said the next step was to take it up with the service manager at the dealer and/or the local Ford Rep. (Get the name of the ford corporate rep, you'll need it)
So, I called the Service Manager and emailed him this link:
http://www.hybridcars.com/10-years-a...atteries-67399
In it they explain how well the batteries are tested. In the graphic 'Ford Hybrid Battery Evolution' they show the battery and the fans are clearly visible as part of the battery.
The Service Manager explained that they don't have any control over warranty decisions. They just type a part number into the computer and the computer says if its covered or not.
I told him the computer was obviously wrong and he (big surprise) said I had to take it up with Ford again. He did say he would email the Ford Rep and I asked him to invite the rep to call me directly.
I also gave them approval to start the repair. I need my car back and want it fixed right. (Do NOT just live with it... Chronic high temperatures will shorten the life of the battery, which the dealer mentioned is a $10,000 part!)
I figure I can always sue them in small claims court to get the cost of the repair back. I don't just want my car fixed though. I want them to fix their parts computer.
It will kill the sales of the Cmax if their hybrids get a reputation for failing with $1600 repairs after only 60k miles. My '05 Prius has over 125k miles and is still going strong.
I'm currently fighting it. If you try to argue the point with the SA, they refer you to corporate cutomer service. I called them and they read me the warranty which says it covers 'the following parts Battery, DC-DC converter & CV Transmission' for 8 years or 100k miles. They say 'see, the fan isn't listed'.
Of course the fan is part of the battery assembly.
Eventually the CSR ageed to 'escalate' it and gave me a case #. She said the next step was to take it up with the service manager at the dealer and/or the local Ford Rep. (Get the name of the ford corporate rep, you'll need it)
So, I called the Service Manager and emailed him this link:
http://www.hybridcars.com/10-years-a...atteries-67399
In it they explain how well the batteries are tested. In the graphic 'Ford Hybrid Battery Evolution' they show the battery and the fans are clearly visible as part of the battery.
The Service Manager explained that they don't have any control over warranty decisions. They just type a part number into the computer and the computer says if its covered or not.
I told him the computer was obviously wrong and he (big surprise) said I had to take it up with Ford again. He did say he would email the Ford Rep and I asked him to invite the rep to call me directly.
I also gave them approval to start the repair. I need my car back and want it fixed right. (Do NOT just live with it... Chronic high temperatures will shorten the life of the battery, which the dealer mentioned is a $10,000 part!)
I figure I can always sue them in small claims court to get the cost of the repair back. I don't just want my car fixed though. I want them to fix their parts computer.
It will kill the sales of the Cmax if their hybrids get a reputation for failing with $1600 repairs after only 60k miles. My '05 Prius has over 125k miles and is still going strong.
https://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/...battery-27697/
#12
03-11-2013, 05:05 PM
Re: wrench light
I think he provided this same link to his Ford dealer.
#13
03-11-2013, 05:06 PM
Re: wrench light
Look Ralph, the HV battery does not want a fan kit, there are two codes for the #1 fan and #2 fan inside the battery assembly. The Ford workshop manual states if any one of those DTC codes pop up, the dealer must replace the battery assembly. Both Ford and the dealers know this, but play dumb of this issue too rip you off. If the fan or fans are bad under the 8yr/100K mile warranty, Ford must replace the HV battery or the fans inside the battery assembly.
Here at Greenhybrid, we are getting sick and tired of Ford and their dealers causing issues with warranty work that is covered by law. It's in writing in Ford's manuals! I can provide the Ford manual sections if needed, but that will make me more pissed off to go the New Media about another claim Ford and their dealers are putting out. I agree, the blend doors are not covered under the hybrid warranty, but those fans are!
GaryG
Here at Greenhybrid, we are getting sick and tired of Ford and their dealers causing issues with warranty work that is covered by law. It's in writing in Ford's manuals! I can provide the Ford manual sections if needed, but that will make me more pissed off to go the New Media about another claim Ford and their dealers are putting out. I agree, the blend doors are not covered under the hybrid warranty, but those fans are!
GaryG
For future reference, would it be possible to scan the relevant pages and post them to this site? Then people could print them out and show them to the dealers.
#14
03-12-2013, 02:47 PM
Re: wrench light
Yes, but not in this thread titled "wrench light". My opinion is that a new thread with a sticky at the top is warranted here at Greenhybrid. CarlD at Cleanmpg.com just posted today that he just got his '05 FEH battery fans replaced without any trouble. The dealer first told him they were going to replace the HV battery, but when he picked his FEH up, the fans were replaced only.
I have the '05 FEH manuals as well as the '09 manuals. Both manuals say the same thing, so you can bet the '06 - '08 manuals have included the same sections word for word. In volume 2 in the '05 Workshop manual, sections 414-03-16 thru 414-03-19 under Battery Pack Over Temperature have these statements. In the '09 FEH Workshop Manual volume 1, sections 414-03-15 thru 414-03-17. Both manuals state that if DTCs POA81 (Fan 1) or POA96 (fan 2) fail, Install a new HVTB (high voltage traction battery).
If someone here has the manuals on CD, please post these sections, or I will need to take pictures of the pages and post them.
GaryG
#15
03-13-2013, 10:47 AM
Re: wrench light
Here are the referenced pages from the 2005 service manual. Not sure how long I'll be able to leave this up, so hopefully someone will copy to a more permanent location.
http://people.consolidated.net/dgent...-03-16--19.pdf
http://people.consolidated.net/dgent...-03-16--19.pdf
#16
03-13-2013, 11:55 AM
Re: wrench light
Here are the referenced pages from the 2005 service manual. Not sure how long I'll be able to leave this up, so hopefully someone will copy to a more permanent location.
http://people.consolidated.net/dgent...-03-16--19.pdf
http://people.consolidated.net/dgent...-03-16--19.pdf
414-03-16
High Voltage Traction Battery
DIAGNOSIS AND TESTING (Continued)
PINPOINT TEST D: DTC P0A7E — HYBRID BATTERY PACK OVER-TEMPERATURE (Con
tinued)
Test Step
Result / Action to Take
D4 CHECK FOR CORRECT TBCM OPERATION
NOTE:
This pinpoint test step only addresses the 6-pin and 40-pin
connectors for the TBCM. It is not necessary to disconnect the high
Yes
voltage connectors when following this pinpoint test step p
rocedure.
INSTALL a new HVTB. REFER to
• Disconnect both of the TBCM electrical connectors. High-Voltage T
raction Battery in this
• Check for:
section. TEST the system for normal
operation.
• corrosion
• pushed-out pins
No
• Connect both of the TBCM connectors and make sure they seat The
system is operating correctly at this
correctly.
time. The concern may have been caused
• Operate the system and verify the concern is still present. by a lo
ose or corroded connector. CLEAR
•
Is the concern still present?
the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test.
Pinpoint Test E: DTCs P0A81, P0A96 — Possible Causes
Hybrid Battery Pack Cooling Fans 1 And 2
•
cooling fan 1 or 2 (part of HVTB)
Control Circuits
•
HVTB
Normal Operation
With the ignition switch in the ON position and the
engine ON or OFF (the engine must have started at
least once after the ignition switch was cycled to
ON), 2 internal fans to the high voltage traction
battery (HVTB) circulate climate controlled air
within the HVTB so it can maintain a specific
temperature range. A failure of the cooling fan(s) or
their associated circuits causes one (or both) of the
DTCs to be flagged
414-03-17
414-03-17
High Voltage Traction Battery
DIAGNOSIS AND TESTING (Continued)
PINPOINT TEST E: DTC P0A81, P0A96 — HYBRID BATTERY PACK COOLING
FANS 1 AND 2 CONTROL
CIRCUITS
Test Step
Result / Action to Take
E1 VERIFY THE HIGH VOLTAGE TRACTION BATTERY (HVTB)
INTERNAL FANS ARE OPERATIONAL
WARNING: The nominal high voltage traction battery
(HVTB) voltage is 330 volts DC. The buffer zone must be set
up
and high voltage insulated safety gloves and a face shie
ld
must be worn. Failure to follow these instructions may re
sult in
severe personal injury or death.
WARNING: The high voltage traction battery and
charging system contains high voltage components and wi
ring.
High voltage insulated safety gloves and a face shield m
ust be
worn when carrying out any diagnostics on this vehicle
. Failure
to follow these instructions may result in severe person
al
injury or death.
WARNING: Before carrying out any removal and
installation procedures of the high voltage traction battery
system, the high voltage traction battery must be depowered
.
Failure to follow these instructions may result in severe
personal injury or death.
WARNING: The rubber insulating gloves that are to be
worn while working on the high voltage system should b
e of
the appropriate safety and protection rating for use on the
high
voltage system. They must be inspected before use and mu
st
always be worn in conjunction with the leather outer gl
oves.
Any hole in the rubber insulating glove is a potential
entry
point for high voltage. Failure to follow these instruction
s may
result in severe personal injury or death.
WARNING: High voltage insulated safety gloves and a
face shield must be worn when working with high voltage
cables. The ignition switch must be OFF for a minimum o
f 5
minutes before removing high voltage cables. Failure to
follow
these instructions may result in severe personal injur
y or
death.
WARNING: The buffer zone is required only when
working with the high voltage system. Failure to follow th
ese
instructions may result in severe personal injury or d
eath.
•
NOTE:
Use a stethoscope or equivalent listening device to
probe the HVTB area.
Yes
NOTE:
The cooling fans may cycle on or off with the key ON,
GO to
E2
.
engine ON or OFF.
With the ignition switch in the ON position and the en
gine ON or
No
OFF (the engine must have run at least once after the ignit
ion INSTALL a new HVTB. REFER to
switch was cycled to ON), verify the HVTB internal fans are High-Volt
age Traction Battery in this
operational.
section. TEST the system for normal
•
Are the HVTB internal fans operating correctly?
operation.
E2 CHECK FOR CORRECT TRACTION BATTERY CONTROL
MODULE (TBCM) OPERATION
NOTE:
This pinpoint test step only addresses the 6-pin and 40-pin
connectors for the TBCM. It is not necessary to disconnect the high
Yes
voltage connectors when following this pinpoint test step p
rocedure.
INSTALL a new HVTB. REFER to
• Disconnect both of the TBCM electrical connectors. High-Voltage T
raction Battery in this
• Check for:
section. TEST the system for normal
operation.
• corrosion
• pushed-out pins
No
• Connect both of the TBCM connectors and make sure they seat The
system is operating correctly at this
correctly.
time. The concern may have been caused
• Operate the system and verify the concern is still present. by a lo
ose or corroded connector. CLEAR
•
Is the concern still present?
the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test.
2005 Escape, Mariner, Escape Hybrid 10/2004
414-03-18
414-03-18
High Voltage Traction Battery
DIAGNOSIS AND TESTING (Continued)
Pinpoint Test F: DTCs P0A8B, P0A8D, Possible Causes
P0A8E — 14-Volt Power Module System
•
12-volt battery
Voltage
•
HVTB
Normal Operation
With the ignition switch in the ON position and the
engine ON or OFF (the engine must have started at
least once after the ignition switch was cycled to
ON), the planetary gear set in the electronically
controlled continuously variable transmission
(eCVT) will engage the generator (also in the
eCVT), which charges the high voltage traction
battery (HVTB) and supplies high voltage to the
DC/DC converter. The DC/DC converter steps the
voltage down to 12 volts (operating range of 13.35
- 16 volts). The DC/DC converter charges the low
voltage battery which is used to power the vehicle
interior components and the PCM.
2005 Escape, Mariner, Escape Hybrid 10/2
414-03-19
414-03-19
High Voltage Traction Battery
DIAGNOSIS AND TESTING (Continued)
PINPOINT TEST F: DTC P0A8B, P0A8D, P0A8E — 14-VOLT POWER MODULE SY
STEM VOLTAGE
Test Step
Result / Action to Take
F1 CHECK THE HISTORY OF THE VEHICLE
WARNING: The nominal high voltage traction battery
(HVTB) voltage is 330 volts DC. The buffer zone must be set
up
and high voltage insulated safety gloves and a face shie
ld
must be worn. Failure to follow these instructions may re
sult in
severe personal injury or death.
WARNING: The high voltage traction battery and
charging system contains high voltage components and wi
ring.
High voltage insulated safety gloves and a face shield m
ust be
worn when carrying out any diagnostics on this vehicle
. Failure
to follow these instructions may result in severe person
al
injury or death.
WARNING: Before carrying out any removal and
installation procedures of the high voltage traction battery
system, the high voltage traction battery must be depowered
.
Failure to follow these instructions may result in severe
personal injury or death.
WARNING: The rubber insulating gloves that are to be
worn while working on the high voltage system should b
e of
the appropriate safety and protection rating for use on the
high
voltage system. They must be inspected before use and mu
st
always be worn in conjunction with the leather outer gl
oves.
Any hole in the rubber insulating glove is a potential
entry
point for high voltage. Failure to follow these instruction
s may
result in severe personal injury or death.
WARNING: High voltage insulated safety gloves and a
face shield must be worn when working with high voltage
cables. The ignition switch must be OFF for a minimum o
f 5
minutes before removing high voltage cables. Failure to
follow
these instructions may result in severe personal injur
y or
death.
WARNING: The buffer zone is required only when
working with the high voltage system. Failure to follow th
ese
instructions may result in severe personal injury or d
eath.
Yes
• Verify if the low voltage battery has recently had the termina
ls
CLEAR the DTCs. REPEAT the self-test. If
disconnected/cleaned or if the low voltage battery has been
the self-test passes, RETURN the vehicle
recently replaced. If so, DTCs P0A8B, P0A8D, and P0A8E may
to the customer until the concern can be
have been flagged.
verified.
•
Has the low voltage battery recently had the terminals
disconnected/cleaned or has the low voltage battery
No
recently been replaced?
GO to
F2
.
F2 VERIFY THE INTEGRITY OF THE LOW VOLTAGE BATTERY
• Carry out the 12-Volt Battery Condition Test to determine if
the
Yes
battery can hold a charge and is OK for use. Refer to Section GO
to
F3
.
414-01.
No
•
Did the battery pass the condition test?
INSTALL a new 12-volt battery. REFER to
12 Volt Battery in this section. TEST the
system for normal operation.
F3 CHECK THE TRACTION BATTERY CONTROL MODULE (TBCM)
DTCS
• Check the recorded TBCM DTCs from the continuous and
Yes
on-demand self-tests.
GO to
F4
.
•
Was DTC P0A8B retrieved?
No
REFER to the
Powertrain
Control/Emissions Diagnosis (PC/ED)
man
Okay, here is the printed copy of the '05 FEH Workshop Manual. This should be good enough for Ford and the dealers to quit screwing around with the Hybrid 8yr/100K warranty.
GaryG
#18
03-13-2013, 03:37 PM
Re: wrench light
GaryG
#19
03-22-2013, 08:24 AM
Re: wrench light
I know you can pull those specific codes using a Ford-specific scan tool that supposedly instructs the main module to check the surrounding modules for DTCs, though I have no idea how that functions, or on which specific scan tools.
For instance, I had a major SSN problem awhile back and 2 generic scan tools hooked to my OBDII port showed no codes at all. The dealership plugged in their own Ford-specific tool and pulled about 11 different codes from all the different modules like ABS and electrical (the problem turned out to be my 12V battery system... dying battery, which their tool pulled).
Last edited by 84GT Ragtop; 03-22-2013 at 08:27 AM.
#20
05-31-2017, 01:48 PM
Re: wrench light
this what they have in the owner manual for a 2008 ford escape hybrid
wrench light:
Throttle control/Powertrain:
Illuminates when a powertrain fault
has been detected. Contact your
authorized dealer as soon as
possible.
Can it be transmission related or just the throttle needing a clean ....
I cleaned my throttle, it was a bit dirty.
But the light was not one before i cleaned it, it was just on in the morning in when i saw it i just turn off the engine, and restarted it, keeping the key in position II for some time. and then it was gone.
the owner manual does not talk about the back ventilation door for the batteries. So, I am confused???????????
I did check that too, and it was operating well.
wrench light:
Throttle control/Powertrain:
Illuminates when a powertrain fault
has been detected. Contact your
authorized dealer as soon as
possible.
Can it be transmission related or just the throttle needing a clean ....
I cleaned my throttle, it was a bit dirty.
But the light was not one before i cleaned it, it was just on in the morning in when i saw it i just turn off the engine, and restarted it, keeping the key in position II for some time. and then it was gone.
the owner manual does not talk about the back ventilation door for the batteries. So, I am confused???????????
I did check that too, and it was operating well.
