Wow...lots of changes since I've been here last. A lot more Accord owners, for one.

I learned a lot of things over the last year with my Accord Hybrid. But I think the most important one was that driving an average 25,000mi /yr for the last 5 years, 34-35mpg on my work commute wasn't going to be enough in the future, IMO. I can’t count on public transportation in my area, and my employment situation is potentially in flux – my next job might take me on an even farther commute. So I ordered a new Civic Hybrid in MagPearl, w/ blue interior, back in November. Didn’t even argue about MSRP.

Dealer called on Friday to report the car had arrived; he knew I'd be taking this on my work commute to compare. And if it didn’t give me a substantial increase (read: over 50mpg, *minimum*), I’d just hold on to the Accord and preserve my equity in it. But if I was going to strike, the time was now, for several reasons, which I won’t detail here.

On Friday, we had our worst snowfall of the season. 11-plus inches. Told my dealer to park the car inside, so that I didn’t have to worry about the snow killing the Civic’s cD, or either of us scratching the paint cleaning the snow off of it. Snow ended at about 6am; I figured by noon, the streets would be clear. I received the first indication that they wouldn’t be as I drove to the dealer, tire pressure gauge in my pocket.

Got there about noon on Saturday and saw the car in person. Wow…that’s a *really* dark blue – I’d have called it ‘gunmetal’; the closest thing to it I could think of is my old .22 Taurus, and it does look different in varying light conditions. But I still think it looks better than the Alabaster silver, which I had seen on LX / EX Civics, and an Ivory interior with the other exterior colors is a non-negotiable item to me. Not a deal-killer; after all, I’m going to be spending my time *inside* the car. Let’s see how it goes over with the important people in my life, though.

Checked the tire pressures…four different ones. Dealer asked if I wanted the service dept to adjust the pressure – declined and got the compressor out of the Accord. 10min later, I had 4 tires inflated to 32psi (wanted a baseline, after all and I was on my way. Checked the odo & temp indicators – 4.5 miles and 35F.

First stop was home (at 46+ mpg); I have a disabled family member, and wanted to make sure the car was a comfy fit for them, even though they’re not in the car often. The Accord was a good fit (and had the bun warmers, too, for their comfort). While I’m willing to give up some amenities, I don’t want to increase their discomfort. Received their blessing, and reset Trip ‘B’. Now to see what I’d get with this car, compared to the Accord.

I had lighter traffic, being a Saturday, but there was still lots of hard packed snow at varying points. This caused me to vary my speed much more than I would like, but it probably had the effect of simulating weekday traffic. I also played with trying to invoke the new electric-only mode, but wasn’t able to do so until I pulled into my office park. Used it today in there as well.

Anyway – on an average day, I’ll do 34-35mpg with the Accord on the outbound trip to work. On a good day, 37. A really good day is 39, and if all of the stars & planets are aligned, 40+. In the entire year I had the car, I was never able to break 42, which would equal one-half gallon of fuel used.

When I looked at the averaging indicator, I saw 20.8 miles – but at 57.0 mpg. Unfortunately, I lost .3 trying to find a shady spot to take the picture of the dash. So my picture shows 56.7

For a brand-new engine in 35F, with roads that looked like wagon trail days, not to mention my inexperience with the car – I thought that was good, and a good indicator of what the future would hold. I do drive with load, use intervals, and coast up to lights / stop signs, but I don’t shut down the ICE on my own, due to the Accord’s ideosyncracies with its 5AT. I also drive at the limits and don’t exceed them by more than 5%, generally.

Now, the route back. Because of elevation changes (more uphill than down), I use the Interstate for a good portion of my return trip, as it’s shown me to get +2mpg over any other route. This, I drive between 55-60, and will generally net me 31-32mpg with the Accord.

Instead of driving all the way back to my house, I decided to continue up I-94 and head straight back to the dealer. I noted as I reached cruising speed that the IMA was forced charging, due to a lengthy auto-stop to fish coins out of my pocket for the toll, and then another as I paid double the toll because the indicator wasn’t changing to show that I had paid, and I was confused as to the actual amount. This forced charging (four bars worth) went on for over 2 miles, and definitely affected my mileage. Plus, I had not completely figured out the right amount of pressure to increase the iFCD, and so drove most of that trip at 50mpg. Arrived at the dealer with only 49.5 for that segment, and after considering that trip was an anomaly, and that I would realize approximately 60% better mpg to start with, I decided to finalize the purchase. (note : I had to drive to my other work location yesterday, and got > 64mpg on that 35mi interstate segment).

Differences between the two cars:

- Civic works harder to accelerate than the Accord (duh), but I can get to my speed in about the same amount of time, the way I drove the Accord.

- While I have 4 cylinders operating at cruise instead of 3, they’re sucking down a lot less fuel – not to mention the overhead of all six on the Accord whenever the car starts / is getting up to speed, or I have to accelerate more than the tinest bit in gears 3-4.

- It drives with load a *lot* better than the Accord, losing less speed on the uphills, but gaining more on the downhills.

- It coasts better, losing speed less rapidly than the Accord. However, once the car drops below 15mph, it’s worse than the Accord. Thus, my coast points have to be adjusted.

- Car takes longer to warm up and get auto-stop engaged (noticed that this morning, in 22F temps). Unlike the J30, that little R13 doesn’t put out a lot of heat for the CAT.

- The auto-stop logic copies the current Accord Hybrid, but engages even later, and after it does, you can’t coast as well (I got pretty good at this with the Accord, coasting for some good distances with enough foot pressure to engage the AS, but not slow the car down very much with the friction brake. I could also coast downhill in stop and go with it). Not sure if I can do that with the Civic yet. The Civic’s AS also (re)engages later than the Accord’s – the car will sometimes run for 2-3 full seconds before shutting down the ICE. I’ve also noticed as of today that if you coast too short, and engage the gas pedal, you can miss the AS cycle entirely.

- From an efficiency standpoint, the CVT is a big improvement over the 5AT. I love not feeling shift points, and power / acceleration is very linear. I also don’t have to worry about downshifts raising the engine speed. Amazingly, you’ll creep upward in speed with the Civic, using the same technique you use to maintain speed with the Accord. Thus, you adjust your foot for *increased* pressure on initial acceleration, and decrease it greatly once up to speed.

- I wish the Civic Hybrid’s engine cruised at the same speed as the Accord Hybrid’s 1100rpm at 40mph (although I don’t have to get to 42 to go 40 – Accord Hybrid drivers know what I’m talking about…LOL). It cruises about 1500rpm, and I’d like it to be a little quieter than it already is. But the size of the engine has a lot to do with that – the R13 is less than half the displacement of the J30.

- I’m not enthusiastic about the Civic’s tires (Bridgestone RE200) vs. the Accord’s. Definitely not confidence inspiring. However, the car is very tossable – reminds me (very) vaguely of my ’88 CRX Si (ok, it was 20yrs ago, but still). With my luck, these Bridgestones will wear like iron, and I’ll be stuck with them for a long time

- It’s a little smaller inside (but I’m smaller frame, so it’s not too bad unless I’m in my heavy down parka. I also am alone in the car for my work commute.

- It has many of the same amenities as the current Accord, although I *do* wish it had heated seats (not sure if any cloth-upholstered car has this, and I don’t care about leather) As a whole, the 8th-gen Civic is drastically improved over the 7th. I can actually sit *in* these seats instead of on ‘top’ of them.

- I wish the door upholstery was a dark color (but I do like the two-tone scheme, somewhat, and a lot better than Ivory, which I had in the Accord, thanks to my now-ex talking me into it, and came to hate (yes, both of them…lol)

- I wish the driver’s seat had a lumbar adjustment (any aftermarket recommendations ?)

- I wish the seat cushion was a little deeper, front to back (but it’s not as bad as the 6th-gen Accord sedan’s). It’s not uncomfortable for me on the longer trip, but it could be better

- The console cover doesn’t have the little recessed place where your cell phone charger cord can fit in a pass-through arrangement. So you have a power plug inside the console, like the Accord, but you either have to get a really thin cord (do these exist ?), leave the console lid open, or store the phone inside the console if you’re charging the phone. Also, there’s just one console storage compartment, not a dual-compartment like in the Accord.

- No Homelink (even though I have a conventional garage door opener, I miss this…lol.)

So…18 years after my last Civic (CRX), I’m back in another one, and in my 7th Honda overall. That car was the most ‘fun’ car I’ve ever had, and I’m looking for a measure of fun in this one, although a different type of fun


With 24,950mi on the clock, my Accord Hybrid is now sitting on my dealer’s lot, waiting to be placed in another loving home (I posted it ‘for sale’ at work, and the only people who inquired were those who knew me and wondered why I was getting rid of it).

Do I regret buying the Accord Hybrid ? Except for the equity I lost in the trade (about $3000 total), not for a minute. I got 35% better gas mileage over the year I had it, and as for my longest trip with the car, I almost broke 50mpg with it.

When I bought the Accord, it was a ‘no compromises’ car – the room, power and refinement I was accustomed to, with the bonus of ‘really good’ FE for a 240HP V6-equipped car, with reduced emissions. I’d recommend that car to anyone needing that type of car. But since I was in this car by myself most of the time, have learned a little bit about the global oil situation, and had the advantages of the FE tools in the Accord Hybrid, those things are not as important to me anymore, and the car became a bridge, as it were.

If I were a little younger, I daresay I’d have considered an Insight.

PS: I got 52.8mpg on my inbound commute today

 

Welcome back. I am also thinking along your lines- the HAH is a wonderful piece of machinery, but after several months of becoming progressively more educated about things, I am starting to let my eyes wander to other vehicles.

And IMO, the HAH has a short lifespan as a product remaining until/unless Honda changes its marketing and offers a 4cyl version.

 

YOUR BACK!!!! YAY!!!! Welcome back. I sincerly mean it. I was very sad to see you leave. Got an 06 civic did you! R O A D T R I P ! ! ! !

Heh

If you can't tell, I'm happy to see you back.

 

Nice detailed writeup. I formerly had an 03 HCH and now have the Accord. One difference I noted was that the Civic mpg gauge was always optimistic by about 10%. Others seem to report errors of about the same margin. (Actually, mentally taking 10% off the indicated mpg gave a pretty close-to-reality figure). The Accord gauge (in the dash) is very accurate. (The NAV guage reads about an mpg too high).

I hope they fixed this in the 06 Civic. If not, you're mpg might not be as good as displayed - hope that's not the case. It's very good in any case, especially for winter driving and a new engine.

 

Wow...a few people do remember me. Well, I figure if Xena could be redeemed, so could I

In reverse order...

Dale B - Noted, although my experience with the Accord differed. I always found the trip avg display *pessimistic*, and the Navi's TC *optimistic*. So I always hand-calc'd the mpg myself. Now, I did find the trip avg display's calculation was generally within a gallon, after a while. For awhile, I tracked all three fastidiously. Finally, I stopped bothering with notating the Navi's displayed mpg. I used the range info, though - that was fairly useful. And of course the iFCD. At certain times I could peg the iFCD at 70-80mpg under steady state cruise on level ground (or at least what I thought was level ground). The car really impressed me, and not one person who rode in it didn't not like the car. But as I alluded to - I used it as a commute vehicle, and decided I'd better try for something better in this area. Call it Chicken Little Syndrome, as I told someone recently who was incredulous that I'd trade an Accord for a Civic

I don't know if you've seen the '06 yet, but it resembles the Accord ergonomically / mechanically more so than the 7th-gen Civic, IMO. Given that, I'm hopeful that the averaging display is more like the current Accord's from an accuracy standpoint. I'll post back and let you know what I find, once I get about 3 tanks done (I have about 400mi on the car now, with 1/3 tank left, so if I'm very careful, I may get close to 600 out of this first one ? However, the dealer filled it, so I don't really know what this first tank will be save for the display. It's at 51.x right now).

I do know that each way of my work commute this week has netted no fewer than 52.x on the display. And it's been cold here - in the 20's / low 30's F). Can't wait for break-in and warmer temps and a proper set-up, not to mention some more practice w/ the car. Short trips under 10mi do kill me - it's hard to get to 50mpg for those trips. Most of the time, it's mid-40's on those. We'll see if I can improve on that, because as I alluded to, using the throttle in this car is night / day compared to the Accord, technique-wise, IMO. The other thing is, it's taking a lonnnng time for Auto-stop to kick in in this cold weather. About 10min longer - and I'm not liking that much at ALL.

BTW - as far as I can tell, I do *not* have the 62mi / 100km reset bug, as has been reported. My car was delayed, however (was built 12/28, and I'm about the 8600th car off the line and is sans Navi, as stated in my sig.


Tbaleno - thanks so much for the kind and heartfelt words. I do appreciate them. When I get a couple of thousand miles on her, it'll be warmer, and then we can make arrangements. I've seen your recent posts stating you're almost at the point of no return re: trading for an '06. I do think you'll like the car, when you get a chance to see / drive one. Had it not been a substantial improvement over the old model, I would have sat on the Accord, trust me. Also - I'm planning on putting some good audio gear in this car. Your opinions on what would make a good setup would be valued (although I've got to get my Bostons in the front ASAP . Looking to maintain usable space and not kill the IMA system / mileage, and would like SQ w/ decent headroom. SPL isn't my bag.


(board in general Speaking of speakers, I have a pair of Boston SX95 6x9 3-ways for sale, if anyone wants them, since I can't use them in the Civic Not as nice as the Pro60s which I'm reusing, but you use the rears for fill, anyway. Paid $390, I believe...will sell for $200 + shipping to a member of this board.

Also have a lower grill cover (GrilleTech race grill) that will fit any '03-'05 Accord (protection against rocks hitting the A/C condenser and taking it out, plus it looks nicer). Matte black finish. Fastens w/ zip ties in about 20min. Paid $65, $40 + shipping takes it. Can supply pics if desired.

Finally, if anyone is looking for the Accord Hybrid's service (shop) manual, I have a copy, and while I wouldn't mind keeping it, I wouldn't mind seeing it go to an owner. Paid $75, will sell $50 + shipping. Will also throw in a couple of bonus publications - body repair manual and a training CD-ROM that Honda expects their techs to review (not too useful, IMO) Send a PM if interested in any of these


GoNavy - pleasure to make your acquaintance. I see you filled in admirably in my absence.

While I'd agree with you somewhat, I'll save my response for a separate post, or this one will get too long. Expect that serious additions / changes will be coming w/ regard to the HAH, but not until the MMC in '08.

I've seen the Fusion on the street. It's actually not a bad car on the inside (I'm undecided on the sheetmetal for now, especially the front end). Wish they had come out with the hybrid version from jump street, though. They could use it about now

 

--

 

If you were younger you might have been considering an Insight? You know, I *am* younger, and I still think the Insight might have been the way to go... I guess the grass is always greener on the other side, whether it's the '06 HCH neighbor on the left or the Insight on the right.

Also, good to see you back. You were one of the most active contributors when I joined this board back in June.

 

Xcel - I'm afraid I have other commitments at this point in time that take me in the opposite direction (i.e.; I have to be in Chicago tomorrow). But I do appreciate the invite, and now that I check back here on a more regular basis, I'll be able to plan ahead a bit for next time.

Speaking of global oil...if you haven't seen Syriana, I would highly recommend it. It was at Gurnee Mills last weekend, but only a 9pm showing on the day I went to see it. It's non-ideological, w/ regard to our two (?) party system, and can be a bit hard to follow. But it's definitely an eye-opener for a lot of people, and I think you'll relate, if you see it. I had to chuckle wryly as I watched it, as it was the same day I took delivery of one of the 3 best commercially available vehicles with regard to getting the most out of a gallon of gasoline.

Was very pleased as I pulled in the lot today at 54.2mpg , and even more pleased with the fact the fuel gauge hasn't moved downward...in two full days That truly spoke to me, although I realize part of it has to do with the calibration of the gauge, as well.

I appreciate you replying to the thread, and I will send you an email in the next day or two. We have some catching up to do.


Civic Duty - I wrote too quickly in my original post, as an Insight would not be feasible for my family situation - the car is just too low to the ground, it rides a little bit rougher, compared to the Civic, and it's definitely more cramped inside. The Civic is about as small as I can go (Fit not withstanding, but it will get less in the way of FE than the current Civic Hybrid) There are other reasons I would pick the Civic as well, but those are the main ones. But if we ever get to the dire straits I think we may be headed for, I'll be wishing I had an Insight (and Xcel will be wishing he kept his)


Best Regards,

 

GreenAndBlue,
So good to see you back on the boards! I almost PM'd you a while back about the Madison event, but I thought, " 'nah,' I don't think he's checking it anymore."
I'll make sure to keep you in the loop, if you want.
Catching up is a good thing. We all hope to hear more from you.
Speaking of catching up. Save Saturday, July 22 on your calendar. Why? Hybridfest in Madison

 

I might be interested in the grille cover and HAH service manual. Is the manual the one from HERE?