E85 in the HAH? - GreenHybrid

gonavy · #1 (**permalink**) 10-17-2005, 12:58 PM

Has anyone tried E85 or partial tank of it? I know it will void the warrantee if they see >10% ethanol anywhere, but...

The piece Xcel posted yesterday got me thinking, then looking around the web.

Seems like there are many many reports of folks fueling up non-FFV cars with E85/gas blends anywhere from 1/3 E85 to straight E85. Almost all are reporting:
- lowered mpg (expected), but only a few mpg
- harder starting in cool/cold weather
- check engine light on (expected) for those running over ~1/3 E85.
- engine seems to run smoother for most- possibly from the cleaning action of the alcohol and what is effectively 105 octane.

Hardware wise, the only issues seem to be making sure there are no natural rubber seals and no aluminum in the fuel line- ethanol will eat away rubber, and conducts electricity, causing electrolysis of Al.

Software wise, the check engine light comes on becasue the computer isn't programmed to figure out what all this O2 is about. Its a very lean burn, and the engine doesn't know to adjust timing for high % ethanol blends. But it doesn't seem to have affected anyone's power. I found one plugin module from Brazil (they know a thing or two about E85) to correct this, but its $317.00. http://www.abcesso.com/

I haven't seen a single report about negative consequences of running E85/gas mixes, or even pure E85 for that matter. I'm talking about early failure, things like that. Of course, most of the posts I read were within the last 2 years.

My concern in our cars would be whether it wreaks havoc with VTEC/VCM.

I've got two E85 stations near me/my work. I'm pondering...

thoughts?

xcel · #2 (**permalink**) 10-17-2005, 07:53 PM

Hi GoNavy:

___If our E85 wasn’t all corn based and actually cost < $1.00 per gallon not including taxes like Brazil, I would think about it. If that were the case, I would go purchase a used FFV Taurus and run the bejesus out of it at that fuel cost

If the cost is anywhere near what I think it is in your locale, I would not give it a seconds worth of consideration because of the lesser FE, high cost, and out of spec fuel throwing a CEL even with the huge savings in GHG emissions.

___What are they charging for E85 or 100 near you?

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

gonavy · #3 (**permalink**) 10-18-2005, 04:38 AM

I need to swing by and check the price. One is on my route home, but I need to get off the hwy to see it. I'll let you know tonight...

Like buying a hybrid, its not about saving $$; its about saving other things. But yeah, at >= price and a 15% FE hit, that might be hard to justify, CO2 notwithstanding. We'll see.

Dan · #4 (**permalink**) 10-18-2005, 10:06 AM

You might want to check WikipediA's E85 article. It talks about running E85 in nonFFVs. The author suggests running whatever mixture will consistantly leave the check-engine light off. The reason it lights up is because it's given up on controlling the mixture. I think the 1/3 rule was just a rule of thumb. Probably depends on the car. You might be able to run consistantly with about E50 without issue, although I haven't tried it.

Closest ethonal station is over 200 miles from me.

gonavy · #5 (**permalink**) 10-18-2005, 11:00 AM

thanks. Interesting sections in the article on emissions control and H20 conatmination effects, but I though it curious that there was no mention of CO2 reduction relative to gasoline- one of the primary drivers, I thought, behind going with ethanol.

It seems as though as long as one keeps the CEL off, the computer can more or less handle it.

I'll try 25% or so in the old Explorer- the only documented difference between the FFV and non-FFV version is in the software. After I see the effects there, I may try the HAH when I feel bold.

Dan · #6 (**permalink**) 10-18-2005, 01:29 PM

Good point on the authors oversight. I'm a big fan of WikipediA, and suggest you add a section whenever you see a section missing. The markup is very easy to learn and the "edit this article" is the only link you really need to worry about.

If you have any reservations about it, just send me your suggestions and I'll post to WikipediA verbatum.

PS.. Also check out the article on Hypermiling I introduced in this thread.