I was driving down the interstate and it started flashing then remained on. I finished my errand then headed right over to the Honda dealer to drop it off. Approximately 1 year old and 21,421 miles on the odometer.

I was about to do an oil change, so all my stuff was in the back seat of the car. The labor for the O/C was $10, so I'm having them do that as well.

Plus, they'll check out that ANC problem a few of you have had. I've had similar problems three times over the year I've had this car. Hopefully, mine will be fixed.

I asked about rotating and balancing the tires. They said it was about $55?! Sheesh! Why so much?? I'll just take it to the local tire shop. I think it's something like $20 there.

Do any of you have over-zealous windshield washer fluid nozzles? My washer shoots fluid on the windshield, roof, and down the back glass of the car. I asked the dealer if they were adjustable, but they said it wasn't.

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Considering about every tire shop I go to charges from 9.99 to 12.99 to balance a tire when you buy them new, your quoted price for a rotation and balance is not out of line.

What I would want to know is why your tire dealer charges you 10 dollars a tire to balance them when brand new, but on a rotation and balance they can charge you less then 5 dollars a tire when you factor in the charge for the labor of rotating the tires.

Most tire dealers don't charge ANYTHING for mounting and balancing. At least, not anymore. In the past, it was standard to charge $10 per tire for mount and balance, plus an additional $2 per tire for a valve stem. But these days, since one tire dealer started offering free mount, balance, tire stem... the rest followed suit.

I haven't had to pay for mount/balance/tire stem for at least the last three sets of tires. If I recall correctly, the last time I paid for it was sometime in the late 90's, at Firestone.

The last time I paid for rotation and balance it was something like $16.88.

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Oh, and on my '93 GMC, since I bought my tires from www.bigotires.com, when I bring my vehicle back to them, they don't charge anything for rotate and balance. It's free for the life of the tires.

It's good business. They're offering a competitive advantage. By offering lifetime rotation and balance, they're differentiating themselves from their competitors. Although, it won't be long until everyone else it doing it too. Same thing with offering free mount/balance/tire stem as we talked about above.

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Well where I live in Florida we get charged for mounting, balancing and valve stems.

Well that is not true, I can pay for such a package that also includes life time alignment for the life of the tires as well, but you do have to pay for it.

As far as the rotation, like I said I would be concerned about such a cheap rotation that includes a tire balance. Are they really balancing the tires?

Figure for them to put your car up on a rack, pull the tires and balance each one is going to take them 30 minutes from start to finish, that is giving them time to pull the car in set up the rack put the car into the air, get their air tools, pull the tires, walk them over to the balance machine balance each one, walk the tires back to the car put them back on the car, lower the rack pull the car out of the bay and turn in the paper work, means that they only have 7 minutes and 30 seconds to complete each of the four tires including the time for setting up of the car on the rack and the removing the car from the service bay.

At the prices you quoted they are losing money on every tire rotation and balance they do.

You can also bet that somewhere in the price of your tires they have built in the free rotation and balance for life, and they more then likely know that only a very small percentage ever come back more then once as I am sure they have a mileage requirement in order to keep that in effect.

Where I get my tires done, there's a service window. I've watched them 'actually' rotate and balance the tires. One time, I was standing there, talking to the mechanic, as he was doing the work.

The cost of doing free mount/balance is typically worked into the price of the tire, yes. But these places still meet and sometimes even beat the prices of other shops which do have additional charges for this work. I know, because I price around my tires a lot before deciding where to go. The last tire shop I went to was Goodyear. The one before that was Big O Tire. The one before that was Firestone.

There are three things that businesses compete on. Differentation, which we talked about. Cost, which we're talking about now. The tire stores constantly try to beat each other's prices. And also response. Which is why a lot of shops have a 59 minute or less guarantee when replacing tires.

But, you also talk about a business losing money. Yes, lots of businesses do things that make them lose money. Offering free mounting and balancing. Free tire rotation for life. And becoming the standard these days, offering free flat repair... even if you didn't buy your tires from them. Lose money? Yes. Increase the potential of not only keeping their current customers happy, but also increasing the potential to attract new customers? Definitely. Take a grocery store. You think they make any money when they sell soup for 10 cents per can? No way. They lose a lot of money since they pay 25 cents per can. But in selling soup at 10 cents per can, they hope when you come in there to buy soup, you'll also buy other things too. So no, not all businesses do things just when they can make a profit. They do things to make customers happy, and in doing so, increase their profitability, overall.

But, I digress. We're not here to debate our ability to buy tires at great prices.

The service department called me back a few minutes ago. While I had my car in the shop for the check engine light, I also had them check on a few other things. The ANC is being replaced. Luckily, the part was available at a local dealership, so they should have it come in and replaced within a few hours. I also felt a shudder during heavy braking while on the interstate. They're machining one of the rotors and replacing the other. They feel if they machine the one that they're replacing, it'll be too close to the tolerance, so they're just going to put a new one on and be safe. Oh, and the check engine light was on due to a misfire on cylinder 3. I do seem to remember flooring it to pass a vehicle on the highway yesterday right before I noticed the lamp coming on. That's probably what set the code. The dealer said they reset it and drove it and it hasn't come back on. I should see my car by the time I get off from work today.

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I twould be really nice if these computer warning systems would give some idea of the severity of the problem as well as informing the driver that a 'problem' has occurred. A cylinder misfire on one occasion hardly seems worth the time needed to take the car to be diagnosed.

I suggest that manufacturers replace the single CEL with several lights varying in shade from green to red and with increasing degrees of warning.

E.G.

Green: Check engine - if you feel like it
Lt Green : Check engine - some time in the near future
Yellow: Check engine - Soon
Amber: Check engine - Now!
Red: Don't say you weren't warned!!!

How funny! But, I like your idea. In our $6.8M radar system, there's a green operational lamp, blue maintenance required lamp, yellow degraded performance lamp, and red fault lamp. And, this radar was designed in the 60's! We also have a display which shows which circuit card has the likely fault. Lowest Replaceable Unit. We need that kind of information in our cars.

I thought I made a post before I left to go get my car, but I don't see it in this thread. I hope I didn't post it to the wrong thread.

The ANC wasn't available, so they had to order it. It'll be here within two weeks. The service manager also said the service bulletin says to replace the front door speakers as part of the repair, so those are on order as well.

From reading my receipt, they replaced the driver side front rotor and machined all four rotors.

They also charged me $10.60 labor for the oil change AND kept the extra 0.5 quarts of Mobil 1 that was left over! I forgot to look before I left the dealership. It's hardly worth going back for, but when I go in for the ANC replacement, I'll ask about it. What got me was that they charged $6.06 for an environmental fee. What the crap?!

Here's some good information on to how much information the onboard computer stores: The error code that was stored not only said I had a #3 cyl misfire, but it also said the code was set at 89 miles per hour! Sheesh! I remember that's when I was doing 80 miles per hour in a 75 zone and floored it to pass a line of 18 wheelers to make the next exit which snuck up on me pretty quickly. 255 HP sure does move, even at that speed. At about 89 MPH is when I let off on the accelerator when I had adequate distance between me and the leading 18 wheeler.

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The check engine light came on in our 05 three different times under similar, near WOT acceleration. Recent software upgrade (to both battery and ECM) seems to have fixed it. No further lights since.
Lewis

Software upgrade on the '05? More info?

I've had the engine light flash at me at WOT several times, too. But this last time, it stayed on.

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