Went to EricBecky's hybrid gathering in Middleton, WI today, with Xcel riding shotgun in the HAH.

For those of you discouraged about your observed mileage with this car, or doubtful that it can achieve the stated mileage, or, even worse, taking flack from naysayers about EPA vs. actual mpg; take a look at the picture I snapped, here (Xcel has a pic of his trip odo mileage on the 140mi return trip, and he'll probably post that when he signs on next).

I got 37.9mpg on the way up against a 20mph headwind, at varying speed due to draft attempts w/ trucks, and Xcel got a high on the way back of 45.8mpg (he finished with 45.4, due to attempting to draft the two eligble trucks he saw - but were moving way too fast to be helpful). The two combined served to form the basis for the data displayed in the picture. (41.7mpg / 279mi / avg speed 58.0 miles per hour)

Tires were inflated to 44psi (from 32); ride quality suffered somewhat, but was plenty tolerable for interstate driving.

Gas was obtained in Gurnee, IL (ie; winter blend oxygenated junk, so no help there).

Ambient temp was approx 43-48F on the way up, and 53-58F on the return trip.

Xcel also strongly believes, per his observations, that 50 or even 60 mpg highway is obtainable with this car under the right temps / gas / conditions (without having to drive 20mph under the limit, btw). I'm not so sure about those heady figures, but I'm also learning not to doubt his estimates, given his experience. He predicted > 44mpg for this trip, and exceeded it on his half, for example.

Attached Images

HAH Mileage - Madison Run 001.jpg (357.0 KB, 25 views)

Mark

Sometimes we could all use a little less

My hybrid automobiles:

Current:
2006 Honda Civic Hybrid (CVT, w/o Nav)
Magnetic Pearl / Blue - 008661, born 12/28/05
Mods: Neck pillows, Garmin C330 Nav, Draw-tite 1.25" hitch (for bikes, not towing!), Pioneer Inno XM receiver via Aux jack, OEM mud flaps, more to come!

Hypermiler status on 3/12/06 @ 3077mi.

Previous:
2005 Honda Accord Hybrid (5AT/Navi)
Desert Mist / Ivory - 001254
Retired 1/21/06 - LMPG 34.1

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Hey, Mark, congratulations! I mentioned a couple of weeks ago that I thought >44 was possible on the highway. The problem is this car has such a large range, it's hard to get a complete tank at those numbers unless you fill up b4 you need to. Nevertheless, it's good to see it. Glad you enjoyed your trip!

I'd planned to fly to Alabama in 6 weeks or so, but I'm thinking about driving now, just to see what kind of mileage I can get. 900 miles. Geez, what's happening to me?

I'm going to the Masters in Augusta, GA next weekend with Dad, but for some reason, he doesn't care what kind of mileage opportunity it is, he wants to fly....

'05 Accord Hybrid
'05 Odyssey EX-L
'03 1800 Goldwing
'98 Civic EX (16 yr. old daughter's)

Looks like the Accord Hybrid is the first of the hybrids to have a satisfactory [in my opinion] mileage display system? Based on the "History" title, can I assume you can store trips in there?

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Hi GreenAndBlue:

___Let me thank you for the opportunity to drive your premiere hybrid for that long a distance! I learned quite a bit about the AH’s inner workings and I am still thinking of ways to hold back that regen as we did in the 2.5 miles locally when heading back to my home near the end of our trip. Hopefully you will be able to do a stepped speed trial to see if that gentle throttle angle reduction will keep regen at bay for when you really do not want it but would rather take the free coast instead …

___Hey guys, I had the tail wind for the last 50 + miles so that is the only reason I have a slightly better average then what Mark fought through on the way up. In detail, through the rolling hills of southeast Madison to almost Milwaukee heading back, we seemed to top out at ~ 43 mpg give or take a couple of tenths. This was with a 5 - 10 miles per hour side wind. They do not help either Once we were away from the hills (Milwaukee to the IL. border), we had an ~ 5 - 7 miles per hour tailwind (20 or so degrees off the rear) and flat country. That is when the FCD started climbing from its 42.8 - 43.1 range at the ~ 85 mile mark to the 45.8 high before hitting local suburban traffic in and around Gurnee, IL. In suburban traffic, there are some tricks yet to be discovered from what I saw of the FCD in Mark’s AH. At some points in time, we would be in a steady state speed with the instantaneous north of 70 mpg. This was not highway speeds of course but in the high 30’s/low 40’s while running through stop light to stop light traffic. The non-regen action had me quite enamored for the last 2 or so miles and I wish I had a few more miles in Mark’s AH to explore the possibilities as to what can be done there. Wait and see what Mark’s future tanks will hold in the warmer temps is about all I can add.

___Besides the AH, Mark received a 30 minute orientation into the ways and means of Insight hypermiling Although I forgot to reset one of the segment meters for him, from my calc’s, he nailed an ~ 85 mpg round trip from cold over ~ 23 miles. I do believe he was quite surprised given my instructions as I was shooting commands his way like a drill sergeant at boot camp and he was doing well just to keep up given all the “drive with load up the next small slope”, “coast w/ regen here”, “coast w/out regen”, “induce auto-stop while in neutral” , “this is a forced auto-stop”, “ease up”, “lean-burn is enabled”, “you just had a NOx-purge”, “watch your instantaneous”, “pull back on the accelerator to remove the 4 bars of assist in second”, “again”, “there you got it”, “Ok, get into third w/ no assist”, “up shift”, “do not pay attention to the up-shift light at this point”, “shift down and grab 4 bars of regen”, “shift down again and grab some more regen”, “clutch to the floor and coast in w/ Auto-stop”, “do not use the mechanical’s”, “hold your speed” instructions … Afterwards, I was thinking about how much easier it might be for many to drive the AH for hypermileage then the Insight. Although both are completely different in terms of purpose, the instructions I was giving Mark to achieve 20 - 30% above EPA estimates on his drive through a rural stop and go, out onto a state highway, and back into a rural stop and go vs. the instructions needed to achieve similar results in the AH were night and day. In fact, there were but a few details the AH driver would have to even pay attention too other then the instantaneous in fact.

___After all was said and done, there is a nice advance in Honda hybrid technology just due to the fact there are so few workarounds needed in the AH vs. the Insight 5-speed for a similar % amount above EPA estimates imho. This would be for the average driver as well! Although all of the tips and tricks of the Insight are second nature to me and an AH would never hit 115 mpg + segments, the AH with its much more luxurious amenities, performance, ride, handling, comfort, and its ease of use move it up on my personal list of automobiles that everyone should try at least once before making a decision on exactly which hybrid to purchase. It may not be the most efficient of your choices but it sure is a great choice if you are in the hunt for one

___Mark, I hope you enjoyed the Insight experience as there are so few in the world that have and/or that will. Another 10 + hours to smooth out your clutch and shift action, learning the regen and assist nuances, how to somewhat control its lean-burn/NOx purge cycle, and learning the techniques us hypermilers use everyday and you would be an old pro! Your ~ 85 mpg average for a mixed suburban stop and go to highway and back showed me you have the capability indeed.

___With that, thanks again to Mark for the opportunity of a life time. It was a great experience.

___Good Luck to you all.

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

Attached Images

AH_Madison_Group_Meet_Trip_Segment_MPG.jpg (19.0 KB, 11 views)

Morning, Jason. It automatically saves the last tank stats - even adds average speed, which isn't on active tank. BUT, it only saves the last tank.

'05 Accord Hybrid
'05 Odyssey EX-L
'03 1800 Goldwing
'98 Civic EX (16 yr. old daughter's)

Kind of amazing how such a simple function as a real history or trip log is just overlooked by the manufacturers. Why do they refuse to put any thought into it?

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Wayne,

I wonder if you or other hypermilers would be interested in touring the country to give the equivalent of seminars in high mpg techniques for hybrid owners ? I get around 60 mpg in our G2 Prius this time or year, but would be *delighted* to learn techniques to do better; and I bet there is a lot of interest elseshere as well.

A group of 5 - 10 people could come up with a plane ticket, hosting at someone's home, and good food, company and shared purpose for a weekend.

I'm certainly interested, and would be happy to volunteer my home and Prius for a get-together in Albuquerque, NM. Perhaps I'll start a separate thread if warranted.

Hi EricGo:

___Given you are hitting 60 + in your Prius II in Albuquerque, you would probably embarrass me given that monster climb out to any adjacent town/state on the Interstate around your area

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net

No worries.

Just rememeber: You get a free 5 mpg or so due to elevation, and if you happen to be in town, you have an open invitation :-)

Wayne, how much driving do you do at high elevation in flat areas? I know that generally high elevation and flat are mutually exclusive, but I've been through southern New Mexico, like the whole Tucson - Deming - Las Cruces - White Sands drive. Other than a single very sharp mountain range dividing Las Cruces from White Sands, it seemed to be mile after mile of flat, 4000+ elevation terrain according to my GPS.

Since both total aero drag is lower and pumping losses are lower as elevation increases, the end result should be better fuel economy. Now the last two times I've done that drive was last year, and I was just going for minimum time, like 75-77mph the whole way, but I still got far better gas mileage in New Mexico at those speeds than I ever do when in the 1200' elevation of Arizona at those same speeds.

I'm not fully sure how to calculate the increase in MPG, but assuming that the majority of the fuel is consumed overcoming wind resistance, 4500' elevation should be about 85% thick air as at sea level. Part of the loss of any throttled motor is also due to generating vacuum in the manifold, and since the air is less dense, there should be lower loss since you're generating less relative vacuum for any given MAP/CFM. Unfortunately, since there's a lot more things that make up the total loss besides just aero and pumping loss, I'm not sure exactly how to make the direct comparison of elevation's effect on FE, independant of hills.