I wanted to share a few of my observations on the hybrid gathered over my 5months/10,000 miles of ownership.

First, the hybrid performed as advertised for the most part. My last few tanks of fuel were running 34-36mpg for the 450 miles average between refueling. I posted a thread earlier about the design flaw where you can pull the gearshifter past the first drive/overdrive gear and into the second slot. Doing this once to my car and driving about 20 miles without overdrive killed the 40+ mpg I had been getting. I never could get it to recover in the next 2500 miles of driving. I tried everything, new air filter, tire rotation and pressure check, oil change etc. No good.

Second, regarding performance, I was never disappointed with the passing ability or power of the Accord hybrid. The AC and all systems worked fine in auto-stop and I had no complaints there. The standard XM was nice, but I've had Sirius in my other vehicles for over 2 years and rate it superior.

I recently took a new job that is requiring me to do lots more driving than I was accustomed to. I put 3,000 miles on the hybrid since the 1st of October. Since I'm being paid mileage in connection to my work, I thought this was going to be a great relationship. All was well until Monday (10-24) when I had to make a trip to the home office 400 miles away. Upon arrival after about 6 hours in the car, my back was killing me. I'd tried everything with adjusting the lumbar, seatback angle, seat cushion etc and could not find the cure. The further I drove that day, the worse my pain became. I don't have a bad back and I had nothing else to cite for the cause of my back problem. I'd always thought the Honda seats were pretty hard.

I decided that it was time for a change. That night while in agony in my hotel room, I scoured the internet for all the info I could find on another car I'd considered and driven the same day that I bought the HAH, the Toyota Avalon. It's a bigger car, although not any heavier than the HAH. I was very disgusted when I went to the Toyota dealers the next morning and found that they were wanting to bid me $23-23,500 for my car. "The hybrids just aren't strong for some reason around here" they told me. This was in Kansas City, not Smallville. I researched the average trade-in values on Edmunds and KBB and found that they were somewhere between 26,500 and 27,700 (high end). I finally got two dealers working against each other and got 26,500 trade in, but it was a battle. Every dealer started out on the 23,500 figure, even hundreds of miles apart from each other. I thought Hondas were supposed to be retain their value so well!!?!?! The hybrid may actually work against trade in on these cars?

Anyway, the Avalon fits me better and I think the seats will cure the back problem. Even though the epa rating is 31 hwy, I've gotten just over 34mpg using pencil and paper miles/gallons since new. I think it's going to be very close to the ultimate mileage I was getting with the hybrid once it gets broken in.

It is very nice to get some of the features back that I was missing. I know Honda's never been one for auto-dimming mirrors, or auto-on headlamps, but hey, the HAH costs over $30k! I expect some of those things when I pay that much. I did think the factory stereo in the Accord left a lot to be desired. I had an 04 Maxima with the Bose that would exterminate the Honda from an audio standpoint. I also missed my sunroof and things like the power passenger seat that you give up with the hybrid. I guess I'm just not ready to be that green yet? Or maybe my back isn't?

Thanks for everyone's input here, it's been a nice forum. Best of luck to you all.

2006 Toyota Avalon XLS, Blizard White Pearl, Sirius Radio. Car #75
1994 Chevy S10, Sirius Radio. Car #74

Sorry it didn't work out for you. I do agree honda's seats and radios aren't great. I hear the 06 civic has better seats though so maybe honda is heading in the right direction.

My hydroponics experiment

You ever notice how hard it is to lip read cartoon characters?
"Crazy is what the sane call Delta Flyer"

If you're looking for luxury and you're still not soured on the hybrids you may wish to check out the Lexus 450h GS Hybrid Sedan when they roll out the Spring of 2006.

Hybrid Vehicles

If you're still lurking on this forum, how are the Avalon seats treating you?

I've never found the HAH seats to be uncomfortable. They feel firmer than the seats in the '02 Acura TL-S I was previously driving, but still not uncomfortable.

<Best Tank Economy!><Best Tank Endurance!>

That is a bummer. Too bad really, you never get in trade what you need or really want on a car, again one of the reasons I never support the philosophy of trade in, however you couldn't avoid this.

I have no problem with Toyota seats. They work out for me fine. There have been complaints about the Prius seats not being particularly adjustable, which is quite true, but for my frame, they work out well with no additional adjustments.

To be honest, I have never liked Honda seats. They always looked nice, but usually ended up putting me in a bad position or didn't have the lumbar in the right place or were just way too hard (not just firm, but hard, I like firm).

Camry is going hybrid in 07, I bet Avalon will be some time after that. Just a guess, but 08 probably.

It has been said:
Hybrid drivers come in 3 flavors, greenie, techie and cheapie. Pick any 2.
2005 Prius, Melinium Silver over gray, package 5 (AI)

On my daily commute, I think the Honda seats are pretty comfortable. But when I've taken longer 2 or 3 hours trips, I have noticed an ache in my neck. This is not so much because of hard seats, but because of the headrests. We recently got a 3rd vehicle, a '97 BMW 540i which has the most comfortable seats and headrests ever (and a hell of a powerful engine to boot!). This is our first BMW and I guess all of them have headrests that can be tilted forward so that you get head/neck support without having to lean back. My brother's '05 Lexus RX330 is the same way-tiltable headrests.

I also like the look of the Avalon and some of the luxury features that are included. I also like the '05 restyle--never like it much before. I also agree the HAH stock stereo SUX BIG TIME. We recently put in different speakers and boy when you look at the stock ones, they are basically made out of plastic and paper. It made a big difference.

I've noticed that Camry seats seem to fit me better than Accord seats(currently I don't have either one).I'm short, but seats that sit too low bother my back.I don't like my knees forced to an angle of much greater than the "natural" 90 degree sitting angle.When we first got the Pilot, the seats seemed waaaay too firm. However after 10 1500 miles 24-30 hr straight through trips I have to admit that Honda does know how to make a long distance seat.Unfortunately, the Accord and Civic seats don't sit up anyway near as much as the Pilot's seats.
I should take a tape measure to the Accord and the Camry to check the seat heights. I bet the Camry is slightly higher-maybe 1/2" or so.
Honda is so intent on mpg that they give up a bit of comfort for the lower roof line-less drag.It is a good trade off for most folks;most Accords are short trip vehicles-10 minutes to a few hrs.Luck,Charlie

I doubt *any* seat will substitute for getting out of the car periodically on long drives to walk around and stretch, and in general giving personal attention to your back's health.

Good luck with the Avalon seats, but go to Yoga, too !

R2-E2, 2G Prius.
Highway/City/Husband/Wife MPG: 56.5, as of 12/2005, 26K miles

Jac Nasser, Ford President: "We are planning to launch a hybrid version of
this car [P2000] within this year [1998]. We will also make FCEV available in
2004."

Hello all. Here's an update on the Avalon seats etc. I'm not sure it would make much sense to do a comparison here of much more than the seats and stereo since the cars are categorized differently. The Avalon is a much larger car and costs more, so it should be different

As far as the seats go, I have no complaints whatsoever. I've got 4500 miles on the car already so comfortable seats are very important. I guess one way to judge how good the seats are is by whether or not you have to continually adjust them to find a comfortable position. Having said that and thinking back, the only time I can recall adjusting them is for the seatback recline on the trip home the other night, I was tired and wanted to recline just a little. Otherwise, I pretty much don't think about them.

The JBL stereo was light years ahead of the Honda's, but it cost $650 extra as well. 13 speakers and 360 watts, it should sound better!

The Honda, even after the mileage slipped into the mid 30s, still got better mpg than the 30 average for the Avalon, but it should, that was the goal in its design. Overall, the Avalon has been a great car for me so far. I've enjoyed the extra interior room and have frequently hauled 4 persons in the car. Everyone is impressed with the high level interior and fit and finish.

The Honda is still a great car, you should all enjoy it for the great mileage it was meant to achieve.

2006 Toyota Avalon XLS, Blizard White Pearl, Sirius Radio. Car #75
1994 Chevy S10, Sirius Radio. Car #74

How are the headrests on the Avalon? Out of everything on my HAH that is my only complaint. My hubby drives a BMW 540i and we both loooove the headrests on that thing. They are adjustable not just height-wise, but you can tilt them forwards and back which is great for resting your head against it but still being upright. Other than that, and changing out the stock speakers, I love everything about my HAH.