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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 12-30-2008, 08:28 AM
Enthusiast
 
Real Name: Raza
Hybrids: 2009 Toyota Highlander Hybrid
Posts: 17
Default Dead Battery

I purchased a 2009 Highlander Hybrid about two months ago. Currently it has about 1,800 miles on it. Last Thursday (x-mas day), I went to go start the HiHy and the battery was dead. I got very concerned and had to jump start the HiHy with another car. I called Toyota yesterday and got a case # from them, and like some other owners of HiHy have stated on other websites, Toyota said this is the first they have heard of it and for me to take into a local Toyota service dealer (which I am taking tomorrow). As I have read on some other sites, this issue is happening with a lot HiHy owners and is really making me concerned. I donít want to be stuck somewhere with a dead battery. I donít understand this problem on relatively brand new vehicle.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 12-30-2008, 08:41 AM
ericbecky's Avatar
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Real Name: Eric Powers
Location: Madison, WI
Hybrids: 2002 5-speed Insight
Posts: 1,374
Default Re: Dead Battery

I'll be interested to hear what they find out.
Keep us updated with your progress!

.

Eric Powers
www.EVPowers.com
EV Powers - A Green Vehicle workshop in Madison, WI
608-729-4082

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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 12-30-2008, 09:24 AM
Ridiculously Active Enthusiast
 
Real Name: willard west
Location: Beautiful Pacific NW
Hybrids: 2003 Prius
Posts: 1,678
Default Re: Dead Battery

Isn't there a procedure to avoid jump-starting by "recovering/recharging the small 12 volt battery from the hybrid battery..??

If you're not familiar with Toyota's door ajar switch technique it becomes very easy to discharge the battery by leaving a door not fully closed.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 12-31-2008, 05:38 AM
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Real Name: R Dale Mercer
Hybrids: 2009 Highlander Limited
Posts: 42
Default Re: Dead Battery

Quote:
Originally Posted by wwest View Post
Isn't there a procedure to avoid jump-starting by "recovering/recharging the small 12 volt battery from the hybrid battery..??.
wwest,
I have not seen this mentioned - or referenced - in my 2009 HyHi manual. It only mentioned that you can "jump start" the 12 volt battery with another 12 volt battery.

Is this a Prius thing or can you shed some light on this technique? If there is a process or method that can be used to harness the Hybrid battery recharge the 12 volt battery .... that would allow those that are having this issue to have a countermeasure should they get stranded.

What I was able to find under the heading "If the Hybrid System will not start" read as follows:
Step1: Set the Parking Brake
Step2: Shift the shift lever to P
Step3: Turn the "POWER" switch to the ACCESSORY mode
Step4: Push and hold the "POWER" switch about 15 seconds while depressing the brake pedal firmly.
It also follows up this process by stating: Even if the hybrid system can be started using the above steps, the system may be malfunctioning. Have the vehicle checked by your Toyota dealer.


Also -
Quote:
Originally Posted by wwest View Post
....Toyota's door ajar switch technique
Can you elaborate on this "technique"?
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 12-31-2008, 09:11 AM
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Real Name: willard west
Location: Beautiful Pacific NW
Hybrids: 2003 Prius
Posts: 1,678
Default Re: Dead Battery

In the olden days the door "open" switch was at the mounting point so even a door slightl ajar would turn off the interior lights. Toyota mounts the door switch near the door latch requiring the door be fully closed, FULLY closed, in order to turn off the interior lights.

My first "Toyota", an LS400, bit me several times in this way before I "learned" to stand around and wait for the internal lights "delayed off" timer to expire.

Absent an actual technique for recharging the 12 volt battery might it suffice to simply turn the key to the accessary position and leave it there long enough for the DC-to-DC downconverter to bring the charge level back up..??

Assuming, of course, a decent charge level on the hybrid battery and a 12 volt battery that is not completely discharged. No even so sure about the latter point.

Last edited by wwest; 12-31-2008 at 09:15 AM.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 12-31-2008, 10:18 AM
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Real Name: R Dale Mercer
Hybrids: 2009 Highlander Limited
Posts: 42
Default Re: Dead Battery

I remember those days too.

Anyway - one of the ways that I confirm that my doors are completely closed is to lock them with the key fob (another new gadget that I really like) - or the little black button on the door handle. It provides immediate feedback as to the closed condition of my doors. Not closed? the system doesn't "beep" but "whines" to let me know that they are not completely closed.

Is there a direct electrical connection between the 12v and the Hybrid batteries? a DC to DC downconversion seems to suggest that there is? Using that as a starting point for this hypothosis, it seems that:
1. leaving the vehicle "alone" would eventually balance the charge level between the two batteries (I don't think this is possible because the Hybrid and 12v batteries are of dissimilar voltages)
2. there would be no need for the 12v battery if the Hybrid battery can be used to start AND "power" the car.
3. leaving the doors ajar would also deplete the Hybrid battery rendering the vehicle *completely* dead (per the start of this thread).
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 01-01-2009, 07:41 AM
Ridiculously Active Enthusiast
 
Real Name: willard west
Location: Beautiful Pacific NW
Hybrids: 2003 Prius
Posts: 1,678
Default Re: Dead Battery

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdalemercer View Post
I remember those days too.

Anyway - one of the ways that I confirm that my doors are completely closed is to lock them with the key fob (another new gadget that I really like) - or the little black button on the door handle. It provides immediate feedback as to the closed condition of my doors. Not closed? the system doesn't "beep" but "whines" to let me know that they are not completely closed.

But a PITA when you have to go back out into the cold garage to get that carton of milk you didn't bring in with the other groceries.

Is there a direct (direct connection...no) electrical connection between the 12v and the Hybrid batteries? a DC to DC downconversion seems to suggest that there is? Using that as a starting point for this hypothosis, it seems that:

1. leaving the vehicle "alone" with the ignition "on" would eventually balance the charge level between the two batteries (I don't think this is possible because the Hybrid and 12v batteries are of dissimilar voltages)

That's what a DC-DC "down-converter" does, convert the high voltage of the hybrid battery to a ~13.5845647 volt charging level to the 12 volt battery.

2. there would be no need for the 12v battery if the Hybrid battery can be used to start AND "power" the car.

I'm not sure what the down-converter's current supplying capacity might be, but yes, you might be able to substitute a HUGE capacitor in place of. But then you would be in danger of depleting the hybrid battery entirely.

3. leaving the doors ajar would also deplete the Hybrid battery rendering the vehicle *completely* dead (per the start of this thread).
My guess is that the down-converter is disabled with the "ignition" switched off. It seems that I have read somewhere that even with the "ignition" left on the charge level on the hybrid battery is "protected" below a certain charge level and the down converter is automatically switched off at that point.

That's where the special procedure comes into play when the need arises to recharge a 12 volt battery from the hybrid when the charge on the hybrid is already marginal.

Last edited by wwest; 01-01-2009 at 07:43 AM.
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 01-01-2009, 08:41 AM
Active Enthusiast
 
Hybrids: Toyota Highlander
Posts: 99
Default Re: Dead Battery

Keep a small rechargeable 12 volt battery recharger in the vehicle as insurance. These are readily available in the aftermarket. This will easily start a dead battery hybrid as the hybrid only needs a very small amount of current to power the hybrid computer to start.

Once started, the hybrid battery will automatically charge the 12 volt auxiliary battery through a 288 volt to 12 volt DC to DC converter which is controlled by the hybrid computer system. If the hybrid computer system is not receiving power due to a dead aux 12 volt battery, the 288 volt to 12 volt inverter can not function to recharge the 12 volt battery.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 01-01-2009, 06:07 PM
Enthusiast
 
Real Name: R Dale Mercer
Hybrids: 2009 Highlander Limited
Posts: 42
Default Re: Dead Battery

Of course the "real" point here is that there seems to be some limited evience that the HH discharges while sitting idly by waiting on its owners return to take it out and drive it around.

The 12v stand-by power packet as an emergency aid is a good idea - whether or not this issue is one that you have experienced. I keep an "emergency" kit in my HH for those "just in case" moments.

For RazzMaTazz, it will be interesting to hear how your dealer experience turns out.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 01-05-2009, 07:34 AM
Enthusiast
 
Real Name: Raza
Hybrids: 2009 Toyota Highlander Hybrid
Posts: 17
Default Re: Dead Battery

Hello everyone,

I brought the HH to the dealership late last week to have the dead battery issue checked. After about 3 hours, the service rep gave me a call back and said that the battery is perfectly fine. Once I arrived there, he showed me a battery read out, which showed the battery at full charge (it was fully charged because I drove the HH to the dealership). But when I asked him why it was dead, they didnít know and said this is the first time they have come across something like this. Another rep standing by said that it could be because I might have left the door open or the interior light on, which drained the battery (I donít remember doing either of them).

So what I got out of this was basically nothing. I am still unsure why I had the dead battery.

Question: Other than leaving the door open or the lights on, what else can cause the battery to drain? Could leaving the trunk or the back glass open drain the battery, could leaving the aux wire plugged in drain the battery, anything?
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Old 01-05-2009, 07:34 AM
 
 
 
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12v, 45, battery, charging, dead, escape, experiment, ford, highlander, hybrid, interior, light, lights, min, prius, ready, run, toyota, week

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