I want to meet the person who buys a 50K Lexus, and then avoids the AC in order to improve MPG.

R2-E2, 2G Prius.
Highway/City/Husband/Wife MPG: 56.5, as of 12/2005, 26K miles

Jac Nasser, Ford President: "We are planning to launch a hybrid version of
this car [P2000] within this year [1998]. We will also make FCEV available in
2004."

on fourth tank with new Highlander Hybrid---conservative in-town driving---so far, for first three, gas mileage has been 21.6, 21.5, 20.6---very disappointing and irritating---obviously WAY below advertised

gbobla, what car did the HH replace, and what mpg did you get with it ?

R2-E2, 2G Prius.
Highway/City/Husband/Wife MPG: 56.5, as of 12/2005, 26K miles

Jac Nasser, Ford President: "We are planning to launch a hybrid version of
this car [P2000] within this year [1998]. We will also make FCEV available in
2004."

It replaced a V6 Touareg---which is bigger, heavier, more expensive, and burns more gas. What it replaced is really quite irrelevant---a non-hybrid Highlander would burn a lot less gas than a thirsty Touareg. What is relevant is whether the Highlander Hybrid delivers what Toyota says it will---as of now, it doesn't.

Dont be mad at toyota, its not what toyota said it would get, its what the epa said it would get.

It will take more than 4 tanks to break in and get the best FE that you can. I am at 7500 miles on my civic hybrid and I am just now crossing into EPA advertised FE range.

...most likely a donkey, but if he had to drive a car, i bet it would be a hybrid.

I'm not mad at anybody, just quite disappointed at this point. Hopefully, it will get better, but it's sure got a long way to go.

I'm afraid you are missing the point, on a number of levels.

1. How did the Tourareg perform mpg wise in your hands compared to EPA ? If your Touareg MPG tended to be 20 - 30% less than EPA, odds are the same will be true with your HH.

2. Toyota posts EPA numbers FOR COMPARISON PURPOSES TO OTHER VEHICLES WITH THE DRIVER AND ENVIRONMENT TAKEN OUT OF THE EQUATION. Your specific MPG is more, the same, or less than EPA depending mostly on your driving habits, and to a lesser degree driving conditions. EPA is not an advertisement! In fact, if you look at the sticker, you will see a **range** of MPG's that the EPA believes most drivers will fall into. Which is another way of saying that the vast majority of drivers will not be at the mean.

If you want better MPG, ask yourself how much of the variance is due to your environment, and how much is due to your driving habits. Once you know that, answers will be forthcoming.

R2-E2, 2G Prius.
Highway/City/Husband/Wife MPG: 56.5, as of 12/2005, 26K miles

Jac Nasser, Ford President: "We are planning to launch a hybrid version of
this car [P2000] within this year [1998]. We will also make FCEV available in
2004."

Have you had your first oil change?

BTW, don't ever expect a car to get EPA mileage. Most drivers and routes are rougher on FE than the test the EPA uses. To exceed EPA you have to work at it.

My hydroponics experiment

You ever notice how hard it is to lip read cartoon characters?
"Crazy is what the sane call Delta Flyer"

EPA numbers come from a test when the vehicle is fully broken in, so you can't expect the vehicle to have the same capabilities when the computer is still easing the engine's break-in. EPA numbers are misleading to begin with, and as has been mentioned before, they are not an estimate of what you'll get, rather they are a particular test that can be used to compare vehicle to vehicle.

2001 Prius Photos       2005 Prius Photos
'97 Prius Simulation Prius inner workings

It seems somewhat silly to belabor the point, so this will probably be my last post on this subject. I think people researching a car purchase should be made aware if the actual #'s are way off from the advertised #'s.

I understand completely what EPA #'s are, and so does Toyota---I'm sure that Toyota has much more accurate numbers from their own testing. Toyota chooses to advertise using the EPA #'s.

The Touareg as advertised by VW has a city EPA mpg estimate of 16---actual was about 14. Everyone expects 10-20% less than the EPA #'s. This (14/16) is about 87% of the EPA estimate.

I'd be very happy with 85% of the EPA estimate for the Highlander. This would be about 28 mpg. I'm just disappointed with 20-21 mpg, which is 60-65% of the EPA estimate.