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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 09-25-2007, 08:06 PM
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Hybrids: Toyota Highlander
Posts: 81
Default Re: How do you hypermile in a Highlander?

Quote:
Originally Posted by w@ntonsoup View Post
I filled up 2 days ago and have been trying use all the techniques that Mr Kite imparted to improve my fuel economy. Thus far, I've gotten it up about .5 mpg..... Yes. A HALF mile per gallon increase.

I coast in neutral often, I am really easy on the gas. I don't know what else to try. I'm at 23 mpg. My commute is about 10 miles, all stop-n-go 40 miles per hour roads.
I commute about the same distance (9 miles) and am getting about 31-32 MPG with my Highlander in the summer with summer formulated premium fuel - no appreciable hills or grades.

I have found that for best mileage, I accelerate up to 40 MPG with engine RPMs between 2200 RPMs and 2400 RPMs. Note that this is actually quite brisk acceleration in the Highlander. Once up to speed, I immediately coast or allow the engine to shut down and run a bit on the electric motor by very lightly reapplying pressure to the gas pedal after the engine shuts off. The brisk acceleration s then repeated as needed to maintain speed where traffic allows.

The faster acceleration seems to give me about 1 MPG better fuel economy than very slow acceleration up to speed which was my driving norm previously.

The engine is most fuel efficient in producing power somewhere close to mid-throttle. The idea is to get up to speed using the most efficient engine operating range and then back off immediately on the gas pedal and let the engine shut off and coast or electric drive as appropriate.

Very slow acceleration keeps the engine running in a lower efficiency operating range. The exception is when the engine is cold as the the engine will run continuously and not shut off until warm while the vehicle is in motion anyway so go very easy on the gas until the engine is up to at least 165 degrees F.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 09-26-2007, 05:58 AM
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Hybrids: HiHy
Posts: 36
Default Re: How do you hypermile in a Highlander?

My commute is 12 miles each way (with 13 traffic lights and one stop sign, mostly 30-45MPH with one 2-mile 55MPH stretch). I can add anywhere from .5 to 1.5MPG to my computerized average on each leg, up to a theoretical average of 31MPG or so.

I'm not comfortable shifting to neutral per Mr Kite's suggestion, but the general principle that everyone has been saying is the same: monitoring when the ICE is on or off, and coasting whenever possible to turn the ICE off are all key.

The best way to learn, in my opinion, is to monitor your real-time MPG graph. If the reading is <25 and the situation allows you to do so, pull your foot slightly off the gas to see if the ICE will turn off and you can maintain speed. If the reading is 25+, then pull your foot off the gas to encourage the ICE to stay turned off.

Once you know where the ICE isn't needed on your commute, you should be able to pump your numbers up into the high 20's or even into the 30's. Driving a hybrid is really a science and do it correctly should force you to change your driving style.

.

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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 09-26-2007, 11:27 AM
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Real Name: Jonathan
Hybrids: HiHy
Posts: 42
Default Re: How do you hypermile in a Highlander?

Quote:
Originally Posted by w@ntonsoup View Post
I don't know what else to try. I'm at 23 mpg. My commute is about 10 miles, all stop-n-go 40 miles per hour roads.
Most of the techniques I read about I don't do per say. I have two general goals...use as much battery only time as possible and when I use ICE, do it as gently as possible.

I keep my eye on the power guage (the one that sort of replaces a tach). When its in the dashed zone, I should be able to use battery if the car is warmed up & enough power is in the battery. If ICE is running, I pop my foot off the gas and then slowly ease it back down.

When accelerating with ICE, I keep the needle either just on the line or about 2 to 3mm beyond the line. For going up larger hills I may need to have the needle go beyond this point expecially if accelerating.

When warmed up, I find i can go just a little under 45 on battery alone if the slope is slightly downhill or if flat I will slowly loose speed. For that I use the pulse/gluide technique. When I get too slow, around 40/41 I press gently on the accel and take my speed up to about 44/45 and then pop off the accel to go back on battery and start slowing down again. The cycle time is usually around 30/60 seconds.

40 and under I can hold steady either downhill or flat. Going uphill I may use a similar pulse/gluide technique between 36 & 40mph.

Under 35, I can not only hold my speed going slighly uphill, but I can also accelerate using electric only on flats. Its at 30/35 that I get my longest electric only cruise times & where I get most of my mileage.

You mentioned you have a 40mph stop/start commute, but didn't mention topography. How bad are the hills? If they are pretty bad, you may have some limits on many mpg. But the rules stay the same...
1. Don't accelerate fast.
2. Use electric only where possible (I rarely have ICE kick on until I hit at least 15mph when accelerating "with" traffic.
3. Don't go faster than the speed limit and feel free to go at least a little slower to optimize your car.
4. When you see a red ahead, stop accelerating. Don't waste power (gas or battery) racing to a red. Also slowing down early allows more time for the light to turn green and the cars to stop moving. Many days I have kept a consistant 20 on a 30mph road. The traffic in front surges from/to lights and I stay behind them never wasting power accelerating.

Hope it helps.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 10-26-2007, 07:40 PM
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Hybrids: Highlander
Posts: 26
Default Re: How do you hypermile in a Highlander?

I live in WI. My trip to work is about 8 miles. I drive 70 highway miles for dauger's violin lessons per week. It is 50% highway and 50% local. It is 65mph highway and 40 mph local. I do not use neutral (it is insane). I accelerate to 40 mph and try to keep that speed in EV mode until I need to use gas again (up slope or after a stop). From March to Now, I am getting an average 29.5 mpg. I am trying to be a normal driver except 65mph on highway. MPG is getting better with time of use. This year is much easier than last year. I have '06 HiHy.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 10-30-2007, 03:06 PM
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Real Name: John
Location: Colorado
Hybrids: 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid, 2007 Toyota Highlander Hybrid
Posts: 709
Default Re: How do you hypermile in a Highlander?

Quote:
Originally Posted by petersun21 View Post
I do not use neutral (it is insane).
Please explain how neutral is insane.

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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 11-02-2007, 06:52 AM
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Hybrids: Highlander
Posts: 26
Default Re: How do you hypermile in a Highlander?

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Originally Posted by Mr. Kite View Post
Please explain how neutral is insane.

Neutral -- engine is disengaged from driving your car. Under some circumstances it is not safe. What do you save from doing that? Explain it with principles of physics. Driving neutral is not normal. You can drive using EV mode on the road you drive neutral on. The difference is that you can drive long distance with relatively steady speed using EV mode. It is what hybrid car is designed for --- coasting.

Probably "insane" is too negative. I change it to "abnormal."
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 11-03-2007, 11:18 AM
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Real Name: John
Location: Colorado
Hybrids: 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid, 2007 Toyota Highlander Hybrid
Posts: 709
Default Re: How do you hypermile in a Highlander?

Quote:
Originally Posted by petersun21 View Post
Neutral -- engine is disengaged from driving your car. Under some circumstances it is not safe.
Yeah. It's not safe to be in Neutral when you are merging onto a freeway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by petersun21 View Post
What do you save from doing that?
Under some conditions, you save gas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by petersun21 View Post
You can drive using EV mode on the road you drive neutral on. The difference is that you can drive long distance with relatively steady speed using EV mode. It is what hybrid car is designed for --- coasting.
Coasting? I thought hybrid cars were designed to save gas.

I can come up with an analogous statement:

It is insane to drive without your headlights on.

Using your logic, I can say this because there are certain conditions where it is unsafe (for example, when it is dark). However, using my logic, I will say it is perfectly normal to drive without your headlights on. Of course, I expect the driver to use common sense and turn them on when the conditions warrant it.

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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 11-04-2007, 04:23 PM
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Hybrids: Highlander
Posts: 26
Default Re: How do you hypermile in a Highlander?

To get good mileage out of hybrid highlander is no different from other hybrids, using electrcity generated from braking efficiently. If your engine has warmed up, release your gas pedal after reaching desired speed (<41) and press the gas pedal gently while watching the mpg monitor. If it is 60 mpg (maximum), the car is in EV mode (ICE is turned off). If you press the gas pedal too hard, ICE will start and you will never achieve good mpg in that mode. What I usually do is to drive as you drive you regular car in the first 2 miles (have your engine warmed up). After that and after each stop, I use ICE to reach 40mph and release gas pedal and press it again so that the car is in EV mode (if you pressed to hard, release and re-press) and stay at 40 mph. Your ability to drive in this mode (maximu distance) decides your mpg. For local, I can get 34 mpg without sacrificing much normality.
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 11-05-2007, 02:23 PM
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Real Name: John
Location: Colorado
Hybrids: 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid, 2007 Toyota Highlander Hybrid
Posts: 709
Default Re: How do you hypermile in a Highlander?

Quote:
Originally Posted by petersun21 View Post
To get good mileage out of hybrid highlander is no different from other hybrids, using electrcity generated from braking efficiently. If your engine has warmed up, release your gas pedal after reaching desired speed (<41) and press the gas pedal gently while watching the mpg monitor. If it is 60 mpg (maximum), the car is in EV mode (ICE is turned off). If you press the gas pedal too hard, ICE will start and you will never achieve good mpg in that mode. What I usually do is to drive as you drive you regular car in the first 2 miles (have your engine warmed up). After that and after each stop, I use ICE to reach 40mph and release gas pedal and press it again so that the car is in EV mode (if you pressed to hard, release and re-press) and stay at 40 miles per hour. Your ability to drive in this mode (maximu distance) decides your mpg. For local, I can get 34 mpg without sacrificing much normality.
There is a bit of misinformation in your post. First, 60 mpg does not mean that the car is in EV mode. It only means that the instantaneous FE is 60 mpg or more. There are many scenarios that can regularly occur where the engine will be running and the iFE is greater than 60 mpg. It is important to understand the various stages of warmup in the HSD vehicles. A ScanGauge would be of some help as well. Second, if you found the way to get maximum FE, you wouldn't just barely surpass the EPA numbers (34 mpg vs. 33 mpg?). I've had ~50 mile round trips at ~45 mpg. This thread is about hypermiling--not lowering the bar.

.






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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 11-07-2007, 06:39 AM
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Hybrids: Highlander
Posts: 26
Default Re: How do you hypermile in a Highlander?

Mr. Kite, First, I want to be insane to drive my highlander in neutral. I have to understand how doing that saves gas. Can you explain that in simple physics terms? Second, under what normal driving condition toyota hybrid highlander shows 60 mpg on its FE meter (maximum, not a bit less than that) when ICE is running? Third, if you drive on a road that has no stops, no red lights (or very few of them) at a speed of 20 mpg, you can get 45 mpg wih a regular highlander too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Kite View Post
There is a bit of misinformation in your post. First, 60 mpg does not mean that the car is in EV mode. It only means that the instantaneous FE is 60 mpg or more. There are many scenarios that can regularly occur where the engine will be running and the iFE is greater than 60 mpg. It is important to understand the various stages of warmup in the HSD vehicles. A ScanGauge would be of some help as well. Second, if you found the way to get maximum FE, you wouldn't just barely surpass the EPA numbers (34 mpg vs. 33 mpg?). I've had ~50 mile round trips at ~45 mpg. This thread is about hypermiling--not lowering the bar.
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