Did anyone catch it? They did a brief segment on hybrids, the upshot of it was that it sounded like a CNW Marketing talking points memo was being read.

They discussed hybrids in terms of Honda eliminating the Accord Hybrid. The Accord hybrid is going away because the Camry is a much, much, much more useful car as a hybrid than the Accord. Sure the Accord may be faster than the Camry for the extra $5,000. But I think the Accord in general is in bad shape compared to the Camry in general-- not just the hybrid versions. And when thinking about the hybrid versions, the up-charge idea works for the Lexus marque: a GS 450h has to be better than a GS 400-- it says so right in the number of the vehicle. It's comparable to the difference between a BMW 328i and a BMW 335i. The higher the number, the larger, more powerful the engine. Unfortunately, that's just not the market mind-set the Accord is in.

But I digress-- CNN said "hybrids are 10 to 20% more than their conventional counterparts" and then went on to show the $3,000 price differential on the Accord. They talked about the mileage of the Accord taking 6.7 years to "pay off" the difference. Soledad asked the woman she was interviewing about the Prius, and she started saying how the mileage numbers are inflated, etc.,. and talked about the tax credits going away and the dangers of the AMT. All of the arguments we always hear, which are all mistruths or out right falsities. Of course, I think the AMT might be a concern for some-- I have no idea. I bought my hybrid in 2004.

I don't know if the segment is available on-line, but I wanted to let everyone know about this... I'm going to look to see if there's a way to complain on CNN's website.

I am waiting for a diesel accord or diesel MINI, both will do better in FE than a comprable hybrid. Plus with biodiesel in the works, it seems like a win win.

Who said the difference between the Accord and Camry was $5K? And, were they talking hybrid versions?

<Best Tank Economy!><Best Tank Endurance!>

Oh, that was me not the ignorant car pundit on CNN-- and yes, I was referring to the @25k sticker on the hybrid Camry compared to the @30k sticker on the hybrid Accord.

IMHO, the Accord is in trouble. I've been seeing these ads constantly to "lease an Accord" -- I've seen them as low as $159 a month! That's so little money! It makes me wonder what they're leasing conventional Civics for. To me that can only signify one thing: Honda is desperate to move Accords. And I've got no bone to pick with them, I'm relatively content with my '04 MT HCH. Though if it weren't for the fact that I ride a bicycle to work and I ride a motorcycle as much as possible when I'm not riding my bike, I think having such a 'pedestrian' car would kill me.

If Toyota comes out with a Corolla hybrid before the 2009 projected date of the next Honda hybrid, I think Honda will be in big, big, big trouble from a strategic standpoint.

I think Toyota will come out with the next gen
Prius within 12 months or less.

Alden Bowles
2005 Toyota Prius II HSD

Greencarcongress reports:

"The Prius is scheduled for replacement in 2008, with the next generation to be sold as a 2009 model-year vehicle."

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006...he_camry_.html

12 months might be just slightly too optimistic according to this, but 14 months or so... unless... you don't happen to work at the LEED-rated Toyota dealership in Frisco, and have some insider info do you???

Maybe with the Hybrid Camry in the line up, they'll shrink the size of the Prius, but what I want is a relatively small car-- smaller and sportier-- and therefore possessing the capability to get better mileage than the current Prius.

Or a Tesla Roadster.

You may be right but I'll stick to my 12 months. They released the TCH in late spring of this year and I think they will do the same with the next gen. Also, I think the next gen will be as big or slightly larger, get 15-25% better mileage (new EPA test as a std), and have even more features. My logic on the last is that every new model in a line I can think of is just about always larger and for sure never smaller.

Alden Bowles
2005 Toyota Prius II HSD

Next Gen Prius due here in Oct 2008 as a 2009 model. What will be interesting is what comes along with it? Prius A, B and/or C? Hybrid minivan? I'd love to see the Sienna offer one when it's renewed next Spring. But things are so hush hush it's hard to tell what's going to be sprung on us.

Toyota's platforms normally have a 10 yr life. This is the end of the 4th year on this Prius platform. I can see it being restyled a la the Camry this year with the same structure/size but using Li-Ion batteries and achieving the 15-25% better FE ( 60 mpg Avg new EPA values ).

But there is so much demand for a smaller Civic or Fit sized hybrid that it would be shocking if they didn't also bring out another 'Prius' - or two.

Yaris-sized Prius sedan with a 1.3L + HSD getting 70+ mpg
Gen 3 Prius hatch with the 1.5L + HSD getting 60 mpg
Small CUV - about RAV size - as a Prius but using the 2.4L + HSD getting 33-40 mpg. What a killer that would be.

livvie, you seem pretty knowledgable about fuel efficient cars. I looked at the link you provided about the new Mini's. I was wondering, if E85 were to become more available, would partnering an engine that runs on E85 with a hybrid component provide exceptional mileage? I guess that could be true for diesel's as well. Would having a diesel hybrid be possible and provide optimum fuel effeciency? Or should we try to stick with fuel efficiency without the hybrid components?

It would be nice to drive a 70+ mpg Mini, and maybe when/if they are available in my area, I would get one.

Jason