GM Fuel Cell Vehicles in 2011 - GreenHybrid

Droid13 · #1 (**permalink**) 09-15-2006, 12:51 PM

GM Vice Chairman Lutz acknowledged GM lost a technological edge to Toyota by failing to recognize the potential of gasoline-hybrid technology, and promised that won't happen again with hydrogen cars.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14848423/

occ · #2 (**permalink**) 09-15-2006, 01:20 PM

One cant lose when one race with oneself...

(sorry...just cant get over the fact that GM killed the electric cars)

Delta Flyer · #3 (**permalink**) 09-15-2006, 01:25 PM

Techlogically, it's like he lost a 10K run and he is going out to win the Ironman Triathalon (read: long-shot)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lutz

We are going to make General Motors what it was in the '50s and '60s again,

I hope you're right, but the last three decades have me concerned...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lutz

Whether or not we get a hydrogen infrastructure, it doesn't matter, because China will be the first hydrogen economy

I'm glad you're bullish on this, but I bet you have political clout to get an American hydrogen infrastructure started...

hsolo142 · #4 (**permalink**) 09-15-2006, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Droid13

GM Vice Chairman Lutz acknowledged GM lost ...., and promised that won't happen again with hydrogen cars.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14848423/

I guess it won't happen because it already has... and this time their competitors didn't even have to enter the competition.

Hydrogen-power cars... low/poor energy density... no fuel supply infrastructure... no fuel-generation infrastructure that doesn't just burn the same amounts of fossil fuels with even less return on mechanical work.

Oh, I stand corrected, that's right, we can reduce our dependency on oil by burning more coal to generate the energy for all those hydrogen fuel cells. Of course, how could I be so stupid? I guess those GM guys are right. Man, how could I ever think those guys couldn't get their heads out of their asses and invest in practical technologies?

AshenGrey · #5 (**permalink**) 09-15-2006, 07:28 PM

Two words: "Yeah, right!"

Even their concept FCV is a friggin' SUV!

Delta Flyer · #6 (**permalink**) 09-15-2006, 07:35 PM

For some reason I feel compassion for GM and will point out their concept FCV is a moderate-sized CUV, not a jumbo SUV. How may people are going to be freaked out hearing me say that?

bwilson4web · #7 (**permalink**) 09-16-2006, 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Droid13

GM Vice Chairman Lutz acknowledged GM lost a technological edge to Toyota by failing to recognize the potential of gasoline-hybrid technology, and promised that won't happen again with hydrogen cars.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14848423/

The insanity continues:

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSNBC

. . .
Up to $9 billion has been freed up as a result of General Motors' recent restructuring, Lutz said. The company now has more money to invest in hydrogen fuel cell-powered cars, which will form an important part of the auto giant's long-term economic recovery plan.. . . But a company said GM has so far spent $1 billion on the technology and will spend a similar amount by 2010.

Virtually every automaker is conducting tests of hydrogen-powered vehicles, which have received support from a five-year, $1.2 billion hydrogen initiative first announced by President Bush in his 2003 State of the Union address.

Good money after bad when the solution is so simple:

1) Dust off the EV1 design (by all reports, a good start)
2) Make and sell them (get operational data from the real world)
3) Optional heat engine powered generator 'range extender' (no engine transmission)
4) R&D on non-hydrogen cells (practical batteries!)

The key is to recognize a heat engine driven generator is just a 'primary cell'. Once you get it, the rest is easy. Drop the mechanical transmission or limit it to one ratio for highway cruise and the problem is solved.

Bob Wilson

martinjlm · #8 (**permalink**) 09-16-2006, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delta Flyer

Techlogically, it's like he lost a 10K run and he is going out to win the Ironman Triathalon (read: long-shot)

I hope you're right, but the last three decades have me concerned...

I'm glad you're bullish on this, but I bet you have political clout to get an American hydrogen infrastructure started...

One would like to believe that this is true, but keep in mind that our president has twice delayed meeting with the CEOs of the Ford, GM, and DaimlerChrysler. Now he's saying "sometime after the election" Keep in mind that he said that the same week he came to Michigan (heart of the US Auto Industry?) and visited a Nissan facility. Smooth move, W

Peace,

Martin

martinjlm · #9 (**permalink**) 09-16-2006, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delta Flyer

For some reason I feel compassion for GM and will point out their concept FCV is a moderate-sized CUV, not a jumbo SUV. How may people are going to be freaked out hearing me say that?

At least two. Me and.......uh.......Me again.

Peace,

Martin

martinjlm · #10 (**permalink**) 09-16-2006, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwilson4web

The insanity continues:
Good money after bad when the solution is so simple:

1) Dust off the EV1 design (by all reports, a good start) I know you guys never believe me when I say this, but a lot of the learnings from the EV1 get applied to other vehicle programs. Just like the learnings from space exploration have found their way into soon to be ubiquitous GPS systems, the learnings of electrical system architecture and battery management gained from EV1 are being applied to other alternative propulsion vehicles. The EV1 in today's world would be a cumbersome single purpose dinosaur with limited utility (due to no supporting infrastructure).
2) Make and sell them (get operational data from the real world) Well, the intent is to make and sell FCEVs that have better electrical efficiency than EV1.
3) Optional heat engine powered generator 'range extender' (no engine transmission) Speaking as a former (yeah it was eons ago) transmission engineer, this is wrong on so many levels. At the very least you'd want to go CVT or EVT or maybe even DCT, but one ratio operation would not be pleasant to drive.
4) R&D on non-hydrogen cells (practical batteries!) Why not both?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwilson4web

The key is to recognize a heat engine driven generator is just a 'primary cell'. Once you get it, the rest is easy. Drop the mechanical transmission or limit it to one ratio for highway cruise and the problem is solved.

Bob Wilson

Peace,

Martin