I came across this article today at: http://www.engadget.com/2007/08/15/g...he-chevy-volt/ and http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/09/05/wi...-battery-pack/

We heard from John (gpsman1) the cost of the hybrid plus hybrid battery pack. Is GM thinking of this concept as a means to keep the purchase price down close as possible to the non-hybrid version? Maybe John can run this thru the folks at hybrid-plus for feedback?

A recent article in Motor Trend stated the Volt is scheduled for late 2010.

2005 AWD Escape Hybrid
Best Interstate tank trip MPG 39.02 (scangauge II) for 402 miles on I-70, 10.3 gallons used over mostly flat terrain. Aug. 2007

Best Interstate tank trip E30 MPG 34.6 for 271 miles along I-80 in Indiana and Ohio. May 2008

Best multiple road tank trip E30 MPG 36.2 for 202 miles in Southwestern Pa. July 2008.

Leased GM EV1s:


Bob Wilson

Operation Iraqi Oil Freedom:

Automatic, stock, project car.

My other 1500 cc car:

Automatic, stock, backup car.
Free speech, dialog and knowledge thrives without the poison of SPAM.

the above picture shows what will probably happen to the volt. Either it will never see production or it will be used to demonstrate how no one wants plug in hybrid vehicles.

GM will not do the right thing here, they never have and are showing no sign of changing.

i personally think they are trying to distract for their real problems with this car. They are pointing everyone to it to demonstrate that they are not behind in the race to effecient cars,when they are really at least 10 years behind toyota.

I believe toyota is holding itself back in an attempt to allow GM to take the lead on the next generation of vehicles. I think they would do this because GM will have an easier time lobbying for incentives to make the technology more attractive such as tax breaks for PHEVs, and utility concessions for charging them as well as other incentives. If toyota lets GM lobby for this type of government assistance, then once its in place they can come with with vastly superior technology GM will be in a bad place... still. But thats all speculation.

if a guy in his garage can convert a prius to a plug in then toyota can as well. There is something holding them back and I dont think its technology. With GM they are held back by about 100 years of mismanagement, conspiracy and a history of not wanting to change.

There's probably a lot of truth in all of the above to a certain point. Given a different management team, a difference economic environment, a different legal environment then I'd concur that all of this might be hype.

However, just my gut feeling, I do believe that GM is on a fast track to catch up with Toyota . What'd he just say???? And I sell Toyota's.

The management is a lot more focussed on product and technology. The 2-Modes are every bit as good as the HSD or IMA for the intended vehicles. Yes they did have the benefit of analyzing the Toyota, Ford and Honda systems for tha last 8 yrs, but the 2-Mode is all of it for heavy vehicles. Frankly Toyota doesn't have an answer for it....yet.

I do agree that there is likely some cooperation between the key players T/F/H/GM so that each of them pursues hybrid technology in the products that suit them best while the others stay out way for the time being. Note Toyota has no 'small' hybrids. Honda stepped out of the midsizers right away when the TCH arrived. Toyota has no heavy vehicle HSD - or even any word of one. GM's 2-Mode is reportedly 'scalable' to midsizers but they are not intruding on the turf of Toyota and Ford. Toyota has a hybrid Highlander but no hybrid RAV which would intrude on the turf of the Esacpe hybrid. Toyota and Ford agreed to play nicely together several years ago when they discovered that they were developing the same system. 'Let's not sue each other, let's just work together and grow the hybrid market.' This to me is orchestrated...I'm guessing by Toyota... in order to expand the hybrid technology without killing off potential new advancements.

Now the Volt is a new development. It is NOT ready for prime time - yet. Toyota has been down on PHEV technology for several years. The late Dave Hermance was never really in favor of it. The Li-ion technology has some serious validation to go through. Then there's cost, dependability and reliability considerations. Can any of these Li-ion packs be warranted for 10 yrs 150,000 miles like the NiMH batteries can? Frankly who knows.

GM has to keep the Volt front and center and it's Lutz's job to keep the horses driving so he's relentless in keeping to the 2010 date he set. This actually is good management. Wagoner is the Chairman and numbers guy in front of the analysts and he has to be more circumspect and cautious. This also is good management.

But this vehicle is one that everyone should be pulling for GM to succeed. If they can make it work and keep it reliable then no matter one's preferences about vehicle makers and past history it will change our driving and help each of us to use less fuel on a daily basis. It won't reduce our national usage because our population is growing too fast and our growth demands more and more and more fuel every day. Our economic situtation as a nation is going to be deeply affected by soon escalating fuel prices that we've never seen before. We need all the new technology we can get as soon as possible.

In addition the new CAFE 35 will make it mandatory 2020 that all vehicle makers have some kind of ultra-efficient 'halo' vehicle on the road in order to bring up the national fleet average.

I don't agree with this concept that GM can't bring out the Volt and Toyota is holding back. It is possible today--yes today---you can have a vendor install a plug in hybrid battery pack for the Prius and Escape models at Hybrid-plus location in Boulder. What is holding things up is documented testing/research leading to warranty and of course price. Once the manufactures document the product meets stated standards--a legal necessity--a warranty will follow. Mass production will drop the price tag. Of course so can tax credits. There is no politician worth their re-election that will not support tax credits for this venture to make it cost effective for the Jane and Joe to purchase such a setup. Remember we are talking about today's vehicles fitted with the newest hybrid battery technology that can deliever over 100 mpg!

The former GM EV1 used a special high voltage charger where as today's plug in vehicles just need standard household outlet. A big difference. This country already has the infrastructure to support this move.

2005 AWD Escape Hybrid
Best Interstate tank trip MPG 39.02 (scangauge II) for 402 miles on I-70, 10.3 gallons used over mostly flat terrain. Aug. 2007

Best Interstate tank trip E30 MPG 34.6 for 271 miles along I-80 in Indiana and Ohio. May 2008

Best multiple road tank trip E30 MPG 36.2 for 202 miles in Southwestern Pa. July 2008.

I thought about it today and realize there is one way, only one way, that leasing the batteries makes sense:

OPEN SOURCE SPECIFICATIONS

What this means is if GM will simply built the volt, a battery-less, electric vehicle and open-source the specifications for the battery, I would be much more favorably inclined. What this means is GM would not have to be the ONLY battery vendor.

I can appreciate that battery technology is beyond GM's ability. Their area of expertise may be in areas having nothing to do with batteries. So let them do what they can and let other provide the 'value added engineering' that the IDIOT who whispered "lease the batteries" wants to achieve.

Gosh, and I thought after doing a little range time I might have cooled off:

Apparently, not!

Whoever 'floated' the idea of a GM lease in this area is most likely the enemy of the GM Volt or the sock-puppet of the GM Volt enemy. I could not have come up with a better poison pill than this 'leak.'

We have a saying my line of work that 10 'Atta Boys' are wiped out by one 'Oh sh*t.' In this case, let's hope someone in GM gets a clue-by-four before further deconstructing GM.

Bob Wilson

Operation Iraqi Oil Freedom:

Automatic, stock, project car.

My other 1500 cc car:

Automatic, stock, backup car.
Free speech, dialog and knowledge thrives without the poison of SPAM.