http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...f_8&refer=home

Bob Wilson

Operation Iraqi Oil Freedom:

Automatic, stock, project car.

My other 1500 cc car:

Automatic, stock, backup car.
Free speech, dialog and knowledge thrives without the poison of SPAM.

To me, it just looks like more "We're Gonna" rhetoric from GM. they invented the electric car, sold out to Chevron,and now calls a big SUV tied to a 5 HP motora "hybrid". GM blew it when the confiscated the EV1 and crushed it in the desert. They don't care about hybrids and they never will. That's why all their "We're Gonna" models are set to launch in 2008 and beyond. They're hoping that the "We're Gonna" hybrids will never have to actually be built!

With their hybrid-lite, it does look like they are following the same "Japanese killer" design rules that led to the Chevette. In 1980, my Dad gave me a new Chevette, GM's answer to the Japanese cars. It was not successful.

I have to admit the fiberglass Saturn construction material is impressive. Strong and light weight, I like it. But to see not even a oversized alternator with so little electrical capability, one wonders, 'why bother?'

Not mentioned in my earlier review but something that was nagging me were the control electronics. They are located under a large 'shield' that at first made me think,'trying to copy the Prius and Ford.' Then it hit me, the control electronics are located in one of the hotest areas of the engine compartment. Power electronics are very sensitive to heat and the Prius has a separate cooling system dedicated to keep the electronics cool. In about seven months, warm weather will return to the northern hemisphere.

Bob Wilson

Operation Iraqi Oil Freedom:

Automatic, stock, project car.

My other 1500 cc car:

Automatic, stock, backup car.
Free speech, dialog and knowledge thrives without the poison of SPAM.

Maybe GM can catch up. Toyota currently has 2 main advantages:
1)Their cost for labor(pensions, benefits everything) is much, much lower than GM. GM is shutting down plants, and squeezing the UAW in an attempt to narrow this advantage. This is GMs biggest problem, and it is a tough one. It is why GM doesn't build a small car in the USA and why GM had to stay with big vehicles so long.
2)Toyota has far more vehicles that folks want now that gasoline has become expensive.Toyota has the Yaris(not really a great car, but OK), the Scion-a little better than the Yaris, the Corolla-a really good car for the $$, the Camry and the Prius. On the downside, I don't think Toyota makes any $$ on the Prius, how can they. It probably wholesales to the dealers for maybe $5000 more than the Corolla. Do you really think it only costs Toyota $5000 more to build a Prius?? Toyota makes $$ on their small vehicles, but not huge amounts of money here in the USA.
GM has two advantages:
1)They are seen as a USA company. Some folks will give them a look just because of this(I will).
2)GMs big vehicles are best in class, or certainly close to best in class. Now, big vehicle sales are tanking-until the recent bump because of the suspicious oil price slide. I'm not usually one for conspiracies, and I don't think the recent drop in oil prices is a conspiracy, but all the oil sellers and folks in the Oil Bidness want the Republicans to retain power. GB has almost doubled the price of gasoline. Every little hiccup added $25,000,000/day to Irans coffers. Who would you want in power if you had oil stock?? Folks who are going to install windfall profits taxes and push conservation, or GB and the Reps who are going to keep the price up??
Back to GM-they build very good trucks and big vehicles- 1500, Tahoe,Suburban etc. If the price of gas can manage to stay at "just " $3 and they can manage to get an honest15- 16 mpg city(instead of the current 12 mpg) out of their trucks, the trucks will sell.They won't sell them in huge numbers, but they will sell them in big numbers, and they are high profit vehicles. A 19/25 EPA Suburban will sell with $3 gas.It will get 15/ 24 in real life-pretty good for a 5500 lb vehicle. A Suburban is very versatile vehicle. If your family income is $95000/yr, you can use it as a second car with $3 gas.
Toyota's current big vehicles-Tundra/Sequoia aren't the big sellers that GM's big vehicles are. The new Tundra might narrow the gap, but I think it will be too expensive. Toyota's main advantage here is its quality/reliability-folks buy Toyotas because they don't break!
I think GM is smart to Hybridize its big vehicles 1st. If gas stays under $3.50 it will be a smart bet. A certain number of 1/2 ton and larger pickups will sell no matter the price of gas. Big SUVs- even hybrid SUVs-might die forever with $4 gas.GM should really push alternative liquid fuels-alcohol, biodiesel, "liquid "coal to keep the price of fuel down.
Luck,Charlie

I am sure that the profit margin on a Prius is slim. But Toyota wouldn't build it if it actually LOST them money. That would not be efficient, and if there's something Toyota knows, it's how to be efficient.

That said, since when does GM have a reputation for building good trucks? When I read this year's Consumer Reports, almost every GM product received either a black semicircle (worse than average) or a black circle (much worse than average). The GM testers used words like, "crude", "coarse", "rough", and "noisy" to describe the feel, ride, and overall behind-the-wheel experience. The only GM SUV that got a red circle (much better than average) was the Pontiac Vibe.

If GM really intends to become a pro-hybrid automaker (and I don't believe that for an instant), they need to start designing engines and transmissions that are both efficient and reliable. A Honda motor is middle-aged at 100k, but a GM motor is junk at 70k. GM's engine and transmission technology hasn't really changed much since the 1970s. Toyota and Honda, on the other hand, have chosen to remain cutting edge.

Think I'll just grab a latte and a bagel, sit back and watch this one. Could be fun.

Peace,

Martin

I am NOT the official voice of GM with respect to Hybrid issues

I am NOT the official voice of GM with respect to Hybrid issues

I am NOT the official voice of GM with respect to Hybrid issues

I think if GM have signed an exclusive deal with A123 or Altair for their batteries, then they could leave Toyota in the dust.

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/ecotech/ecot.htm

It just wont be the same without you.


Cheers;


MSantos

Hummm, he might need to be careful . . . someone might accuse him of being a Howard Dean supporter (remembering that anti-Dean ad that mysterious showed up in Iowa in 2004.)

Bob Wilson

Operation Iraqi Oil Freedom:

Automatic, stock, project car.

My other 1500 cc car:

Automatic, stock, backup car.
Free speech, dialog and knowledge thrives without the poison of SPAM.

Latte? Did that come free with your purse?

/likes his coffee black, like his men.