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Old 10-25-2007, 04:34 PM
martinjlm's Avatar
martinjlm martinjlm is offline
Proud to be GM
 
Real Name: Martin
Location: Detroit
Hybrids: None at this time
Posts: 521
Default Re: Honda comments in Automotive News

Quote:
Originally Posted by abowles View Post
Hold the phone a second MartinJLM. Planetary transmissions have app. 1/3 the moving parts of a "normal" transmission and the engine gets used substantially less for the same miles, unless maybe Al Gore's boy is driving it. This translates to fewer repairs doesn't it?
Please define what you mean by "Planetary transmission" as compared to "normal" transmission. What I would consider a "normal" automatic transmission is designed around planetary gearsets, friction clutches, hydraulic circuits, and electronics. In the case that you meant to say CVT instead of planetary transmission, it is true that the CVT would likely have fewer parts (don't know how you would substantiate 1/3 less), but would also be designed around a belt or chain drive. These are the weak links in the design and subject to higher warranty than the planetary gearsets or hydraulic circuits in a "normal" or "planetary" gearset. Also, whatever hybrid system you add would be adding more moving parts to the vehicle than you would reduce by having a CVT instead of a planetary gearset. So IN MY OPINION it would not translate to fewer repairs. There are reasons why CVTs have not replaced planetary / hydraulic transmissions on a large scale.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abowles View Post
Anyway, I believe the Prius and Civic hybrids repair records will bear this out. I have thought Toyota should go to a maintenance schedule similar to aircraft engines and use hours of operation for service interval determinations, rather than miles.
I'll take your word for this. I don't feel like researching it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abowles View Post
As for the repairs - if you build a new car from the parts house it costs about 5 times the pre-assembled cost.
Following this logic, a car company could begin to justify selling service parts instead of new cars if the components had a 20% replace rate. Any car company that had just one group of components that were being replaced at 20% would soon find themselves out of business. Auto companies start looking at voluntary recalls when warranty rates on specific parts or systems approach 2%. It's a clear indication that something is very wrong and needs to be corrected before public perception of the product falls drastically.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abowles View Post
Somebody's making money on that and the manufacturer has to attract and keep dealers. Repair income is certainly a piece of that because they sell the replacement parts.
Dealers make some money on parts and some money on labor. They would rather make the money on doing routine and preventive maintenance, as opposed to fixing catastrophic failures. maintenance makes the customer feel good about keeping up the value of their investment and they are more likely to buy / lease their next vehicle from a dealer that treats them well. Fixing failures might improve a customer's perception of the dealer, but it will also negatively impact the customer's perception of the product. The customer's likelihood of switching brands increases. Why would a dealer support replacing parts but losing the next vehicle sale?

As for the car company, sure they can mark up the parts that they sell to the dealer. The dealer will then mark up the parts provided to the customer, add labor cost, and charge it back to the car company in warranty. Example......Car company acquires a "part" for $100. Sells it to the dealer for $120. The dealer bills the customer $150, plus $75 labor to diagnose and install. The dealer bills the company $225 for the warranty repair. The company is now out $105.


Quote:
Originally Posted by abowles View Post
Finally, the point is that hybrids and PHEVs are inherently more reliable,
based on........??????


Just so you know that I'm not just making stuff up, at various points in my career I have been responsible for......
  • Engineering manufacturing processes for automatic transmissions
  • Trouble shooting warranty issues with automatic and manual transmissions
  • Managing the group responsible for writing service manuals that dealerships use to fix engines and automatic transmissions
  • Managing the group responsible for design and sourcing of service tools for dealerships to use to repair engines and transmissions
  • Managing the group responsible for acquiring and warehousing service parts for engines and transmissions that are sold to dealerships
Peace,

Martin

.

I am NOT the official voice of GM with respect to Hybrid issues

I am NOT the official voice of GM with respect to Hybrid issues

I am NOT the official voice of GM with respect to Hybrid issues

Last edited by martinjlm : 10-25-2007 at 04:37 PM.
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