Honda Insight Most Deadly Car in America - GreenHybrid

AZCivic · #1 (**permalink**) 11-04-2005, 11:37 AM

Quote:

The non-profit group Informed for Life (www.informedforlife.org) has just released its combined RISK scores for many 2006 model-year vehicles. The group's RISK scores use a calculated composite of NHTSA and IIHS crash ratings, weighted according to actual fatality risk in accidents, along with known factors that raise the fatality risk in vehicles, like weight, the presence of stability control, and the presence of a side-curtain airbag.

Although the group isn't yet well known to consumers or industry insiders, it's filling a gap in the availability of straightforward crash ratings. "So far, it's been a purely personal effort on my part," said the group's president, Michael Dulburger, a Conn. mechanical engineer who started the project about five years ago when he was shopping for a new car and found that none of the established crash-ratings systems corresponded to actual injury or fatality risk. When considering the purchase of a Ford F-150, he found that NHTSA gave the truck a five-star crash rating; he was later amazed to find out that the IIHS had ranked it 'poor.' Without any professional ties to the auto industry, Dulburger set out to devise his own system; since then, he's been funding the project himself - and devoting much of his spare time to entering data and honing a system that would better correlate with real-world statistics.

After poring over actual crash data and what existing ratings meant, he saw some glaring deficiencies that rendered some aspects of either IIHS or NHTSA ratings meaningless to a typical consumer. "Even within each source they don't really tell you how to apportion your concern," said Dulberger, who pointed out that rear impacts account for only three percent of all fatalities, while they're given what appears to be equal footing in their ratings. On the other hand, frontal impacts account for 43 percent of fatalities, rollovers 28 percent, and side impacts 26 percent, according to NHTSA. "The IIHS still doesn't even look at rollover. And when you look at the NHTSA side-impact ratings, they mention that they don't consider head injuries. What good is that?"

"The NHTSA also tells you that you shouldn't compare vehicle ratings in different weight classes. But that's not the way that people shop for vehicles… And the full ratings range isn't even used - for instance with NHTSA almost every car is four or five stars," commented Dulburger, who referred to a 30:1 fatality spread from the model with the highest fatality rate to that with the lowest, according to NHTSA.

"There are 117 traffic fatalities a day in the U.S. What you're in makes a huge difference. If we could stay away from the models with the worst fatality rates, we'd greatly affect that number."

"Automakers have figured out that safety is a selling point," said Dulburger, who referred to the frequent mention of crash ratings in ads. "Five stars is such a small part of the overall picture. You need to be looking at so much more."

Dulburger admits that the group's system doesn't take into account other factors like the varying demographics and driving attitudes of buyers for each model, but he said that it's the closest match to how the cars protect in real-world crashes.

The combined RISK scores are now indexed for 2006 so that 100 represents the fatality-weighted average - the lower the score, the better. See the Web site for complete details of how the scores are calculated. Below are the best and worst of '06, according to the system. -Bengt Halvorson

Lowest RISK scores:

Acura RL - 56
Lincoln Town Car - 58
Volvo S80 - 61
Acura TL - 62
Acura MDX - 66
Ford Crown Victoria - 66
Mercury Grand Marquis - 66
Mitsubishi Galant - 66
Lincoln LS - 68
Acura TSX - 68

Highest RISK scores:

Honda Insight - 167
Scion xA - 158
Mazda B-Series - 152
Ford Ranger - 152
Toyota Tundra - 150
Toyota Tacoma - 149
Ford Focus - 149
Nissan Sentra - 148
Nissan Frontier - 148
Kia Spectra - 146

http://www.informedforlife.org/

Pravus Prime · #2 (**permalink**) 11-04-2005, 12:01 PM

That site makes my head hurt. I'm a young guy, and I felt that the font size was far too small.

I'm guessing he's comparing base models, he lists the FEH 4WD as not having side curtain airbags, which I've got. It also seems that he likes to bump up the hybrids danger rating compared to non-hybrid versions. I don't really understand why a FEH and an Escape have a 3 or so point difference.

Delta Flyer · #3 (**permalink**) 11-04-2005, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benjamin Disraeli

There are lies, **** lies, and statictics

All you football fans know that Tom Brady does not have the best passing statictics, nor does he have the strongest arm. Of course passing is not and end it itself, but to win games. That's what Tom Brady does best win games, esp. in pressure situations.

I'll conceed that the Insight is lighter armored against nearly any other vehicle on the road today. A common theme here is driver alertness is the biggest safety factor

alert Insight Driver
Ford Excursion driver reclined with one hand on the steering wheel controlling the 8,500+ pound vehicle
Racing 15-20mph over the pack in a Ford F150-250.

I'll still pick #1.

BTW, did this study evaluate the tip-over hazard? Keith Bradshier discusses this in High and Mighty. A few months ago I spun out at 60 miles per hour - very scary. If it happened to me again would I rather be in a Ford Excursion than a Honda Insight? Noooo!

Another note: That Ford Excursion is a lot more likely to kill the other guy in a collision than an Insight. It's more than the obvious weight advantage. There is a height advantage, too. Trucks aren't required to crumble like cars to absorb the impact - a hazard to both vehicles in a collision.

It's a sad commentary that many people want to drive 6000-8000 pounds to supposedly protect themselves, comfortable with the fact they are a lot more likely to kill the other guy in a wreck. What a lovely conscious!

AZCivic · #4 (**permalink**) 11-04-2005, 12:22 PM

The numbers are partially based on real-world traffic death rate data, which is subject to variance. It's possible that the hybrid versions of many vehicles are sold in higher numbers in inherently more dangerous places. Kind of like how many minivans outscore sedans even though minivans handle worse and are more likely to roll over. Fact is, once you get real-world data involved, the average minivan driver is much more safe and conservative than the average sedan driver, hence the reason why you see differences.

ralph_dog · #5 (**permalink**) 11-04-2005, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delta Flyer

All you football fans know that Tom Brady does not have the best passing statictics, nor does he have the strongest arm. Of course passing is not and end it itself, but to win games. That's what Tom Brady does best win games, esp. in pressure situations.

I'll conceed that the Insight is lighter armored against nearly any other vehicle on the road today. A common theme here is driver alertness is the biggest safety factor

alert Insight Driver<
Ford Excursion driver reclined with one hand on the steering wheel controlling the 8,500+ pound vehicle<
Racing 15-20mph over the pack in a Ford F150-250.<

I'll still pick #1.

BTW, did this study evaluate the tip-over hazard? Keith Bradshier discusses this in High and Mighty. A few months ago I spun out at 60 miles per hour - very scary. If it happened to me again would I rather be in a Ford Excursion than a Honda Insight? Noooo!

Another note: That Ford Excursion is a lot more likely to kill the other guy in a collision than an Insight. It's more than the obvious weight advantage. There is a height advantage, too. Trucks aren't required to crumble like cars to absorb the impact - a hazard to both vehicles in a collision.

It's a sad commentary that many people want to drive 6000-8000 pounds to supposedly protect themselves, comfortable with the fact they are a lot more likely to kill the other guy in a wreck. What a lovely conscious!

Unfortunatly, the mantra on the roads today is "kill or be killed". If you're not a very alert driver, then an urban assault vehicle is the way to go 'cuz you are most likely going to run over or into something and not worry too much. Myself, I'd rather be more aware in a smaller, more manuverable vehicle like an insight, prius, motorcycle, benz S600, etc.

Delta Flyer · #6 (**permalink**) 11-04-2005, 01:59 PM

Keith Bradshier has already pointed out in High and Mighty that it's harder to see around SUV's in traffic.

Now check out this CNN article about SUVs backing into children on driveways.

How I wish I'd read this book when we were discussing safety - size did not save the dinosaurs!!!

rigger · #7 (**permalink**) 11-04-2005, 06:57 PM

I have been looking for a long time (about a year) and have only found one fatality in an Insight. Just trying to see how safe of a car it REALLY in. Heard MUCH more positive stories than negative. Quite a few about how they were hit hard enough the car was totaled but felt in any other car they would of been toast - a few said they'd buy an Insight to replace the one that was totaled.

As far as being safe in the car, I drive with my headlights on normally. My car blends right in with the grass on either side of the road around (the color) here so quite often I have people pull out right in front of me

. I can see the same problem with the Silver Insights too. I still feel very safe in the car - and at least once a week the question is asked about "How safe is it?".

IMAhybrid · #8 (**permalink**) 11-04-2005, 07:13 PM

i'd quess a lot of the reason that guy rated it so low is the insight is so light weight. another thing is there aren't that many out there so if one person dies it's a greater percentage of owners.

Delta Flyer · #9 (**permalink**) 11-04-2005, 07:19 PM

If you want to talk about unsafe subcompacts, consider the original VW Beetle. Many safety improvements have been made, not the least of them airbags. Add to that rack-and-pinion steering, disk brakes, safety glass....safety standards are a lot better.

basjoos · #10 (**permalink**) 11-05-2005, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delta Flyer

A few months ago I spun out at 60 miles per hour - very scary. If it happened to me again would I rather be in a Ford Excursion than a Honda Insight? Noooo!

Another thing that most people don't seem to realize is that the lighter vehicle is much easier to control in a skid, since it has less enertia. I can throw my 2100lbs Honda civic hatch into skids and recover from skids on icy roads all day long with no problems, but if I got into a skid in the Isuzu Trooper and F-150 that I have owned in the past, I was pretty much along for the ride. Skid recovery in these heavier vehicles was more a matter of luck than control. When driving my Civic on icy roads, I can see vehicles around me skidding our of control into the ditch and into each other, whereas when things get a little squirrely on a slick spot, I can easily recover and keep on going. I typically can travel at least 10mph faster than the typical heavier vehicle on black ice with complete control. It gives my a perverse pleasure to watch when the SUV (EGO-mobile) driver I have passed tries to match my speed and spins off into the ditch.