Honda moving towards diesel over hybrid - Page 2 - GreenHybrid

clett · #11 (**permalink**) 08-10-2006, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delta Flyer

What is GM doing? Ford?

In the USA, not very much!

But over here in Europe they have some great diesel vehicles. Some get 60+ US mpg. It was the Euro market that got Honda into diesels in the first place - they bought in Isuzu units for a couple of years then went all the way with their own iCDTi units. You'll be amazed when you get them, the iCDTi engines are really incredible!

blinkard · #12 (**permalink**) 08-10-2006, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delta Flyer

What is GM doing? Ford?

I think "Circling the drain" sums it up.

GM has a lot of ethanol-capable vehicles...which would save a lot of gas, if we actually could get ethanol in most of the 50 states. They are introducing one hybrid-lite vehicle this fall...which bumps economy from "crappy" to "good for a vehicle its size." They are developing dual-mode hybrid systems...which are heading for large vehicles. They're also developing fuel cell vehicles...which have been 10+ years away for the past 10 years...and run on hydrogen which will require more energy to produce than we get out of it...IF they manage to come up with a tank that's smaller than the car itself. As for small cars, well, umm....

Ford has the Escape hybrid, with plans to introduce a Fusion hybrid. They're converting a lot of their fleet to be capable of ethanol...but since relatively few can actually buy it, nothing is accomplished. As for introducing another small car, ummmm....say, did you see our flashy new ad campaign?

And as for Chrysler...they're reintroducing the Dodge Challenger. Kinda sums up their attitude.

Did I miss anything?

blinkard · #13 (**permalink**) 08-10-2006, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by livvie

If a diesel can get the FE of a hybrid, why bother with a hybrid.

diesel > gas

hybrid > non-hybrid

diesel hybrid > gas hybrid

More is better.

Delta Flyer · #14 (**permalink**) 08-10-2006, 11:15 AM

I generalized, but Honda is doing more than GM and Ford put together on the environment - their fleet mpg proves it.

kdhspyder · #15 (**permalink**) 08-10-2006, 12:11 PM

Honda has already announced it's strategy several weeks ago when they stated that for MY 2008 they would offer both a diesel Odyssey and a diesel MDX. Notice both are larger midsized vehicles. At the same time they are going forward with the Fit hybrid and likely another smaller hybrid vehicle as well.

In contrast note that Toyota has announced nothing about any new hybrids except to debut the Estima hybrid in Japan.

My read is that each has recognized that the other's hybrid system has inherent advantages so they've 'decided' not to tread on the other's turf so to speak. The IMA is very cost effective and capable on smaller vehicles but less so on midsized vehicles. The HSD is better on midsized vehicles but probably too costly at present on less expensive vehicles. Comparitive advantage. Let each do what it does best.

However, Toyota letting Honda bring a more fuel efficient Ody to market without a response just won't happen. I expect the battle will be the diesel Ody vs the hybrid Sienna and the diesel MDX vs the hybrid Highlander.

Then possibly a diesel Corolla / Yaris vs the Honda hybrids.

There may be some orchestration to all of this as well or just plain and simple competition from two keen rivals.

livvie · #16 (**permalink**) 08-10-2006, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lars-ss

Is that a SERIOUS question? If so, here is the serious answer:

The answer is pollution right now. Until the "clean diesel" engines make it to the USA, with Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel available at 100% of the USA gas stations which sell diesel, and the advanced technology diesel Particulate Matter filters in place, and ALL 50 states allowing the sale of "new" diesel passenger cars, then diesel is far more polluting than hybrids.

My dream car is a 5-passenger sedan, DIESEL ELECTRIC PLUG-IN hybrid which gets 80 MPG in hybrid mode and gets about 60 miles in EV mode before starting the engine.

For less than $35,000. I'd trade my TCH on that car TODAY.

It was. If a diesel can do better than a hybrid in FE, that in itself tells me that you are polluting less but the mere fact that you are using less fuel.

I don't buy the arguement that just by owning a hybrid you are polluting less... it's all about context. Sure my HCH gets better FE than my MINI, but guess which car polluts less? It's my MINI because I drive 9 miles to my HCH 40 miles.

The technology exist right now and is being used right now for diesel to pollute less. If bio-diesel (algae derived) takes off, well it's a win/win. The hybrids as they stand now still use gasoline (with 10% ethanol) which means they will pollute more.

RichC · #17 (**permalink**) 08-10-2006, 02:31 PM

Drove past a Honda diesel on the way home tonight ... it was pretty cool so I snapped it with the cellphone ... but don't think its what we are talking about????

clett · #18 (**permalink**) 08-11-2006, 04:17 AM

Do Honda really make lorries? Could this be another maker's truck with their logo on the side?

Sledge · #19 (**permalink**) 08-11-2006, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichC

Drove past a Honda diesel on the way home tonight ... it was pretty cool so I snapped it with the cellphone ... but don't think its what we are talking about????

It has wheelcovers over the tractor's back axles! It's about time some put some aero on big rigs.

Obviously, the person who bought the rig is a big Insight fan

Delta Flyer · #20 (**permalink**) 08-11-2006, 05:05 AM