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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 12-02-2005, 12:16 PM
ralph_dog's Avatar
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Real Name: Ralph
Location: Canton MA
Hybrids: 2005 Honda Civic Hybrid
Posts: 600
Default Re: Hybrid Use Tax! On News Last Night.

On the subject of the big rigs and FE. I think the technology exists to create a much more efficient truck propulsion system. They could use a diesel/electric type of combo much like the new GE locomotives use. Far less particulate pollution along with very high torque and the ability to recover energy from regen braking.

.

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  #62 (permalink)  
Old 12-03-2005, 12:07 AM
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Location: Orlando,FL
Hybrids: Accord
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Default Re: Hybrid Use Tax! On News Last Night.

This was not originated by the US Chamber of Commerce but has been kicked around in the minds of those who love to raise taxes for awhile. However, until recently they haven't had a means to actually implement it.

It is coming to life through the work of OSU. If I had to guess I'd say look for Oregon to implement it first, probably quickly followed by CA and WA. Unless, of course, there is a groundswell against it.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/...in674120.shtml

http://www.wired.com/news/autotech/0..._story_related
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old 12-03-2005, 07:57 AM
ralph_dog's Avatar
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Real Name: Ralph
Location: Canton MA
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Default Re: Hybrid Use Tax! On News Last Night.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yozho
This was not originated by the US Chamber of Commerce but has been kicked around in the minds of those who love to raise taxes for awhile. However, until recently they haven't had a means to actually implement it.

It is coming to life through the work of OSU. If I had to guess I'd say look for Oregon to implement it first, probably quickly followed by CA and WA. Unless, of course, there is a groundswell against it.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/...in674120.shtml

http://www.wired.com/news/autotech/0..._story_related
I'm sure the solons here in Taxachusetts are sniffing money on this as well. This whole fuel tax thing is a big catch 22. If we lower or eliminate the current tax rates that joe commuter pays by implementing a per mile tax, then we get hit by higher taxes imposed on the big rig haulers who would then, most likely, be paying a much higher road use tax because of weight, fuel tax, etc. And who pays this big rig tax, consumers like you and me who buy groceries, clothes, etc that are shipped via truck. (we are already paying this fee by the way). There's got to be a better way. I propose that certain vehicles like hybrids and smaller more efficient cars pay less tax by getting a nice fuel/mileage tax deduction every year (not just a one time deduction). I'm sure that a small 2000 lb vehicle causes an imperceptable amount of road wear. Yes, let's keep track of miles driven and gallons used by using this sophisticated tracking system so that the tax break is legit. This would encourage people to buy lighter, cleaner, more FE vehicles. etc.

Here in Taxachusetts we pay an excise tax each year (I payed an additional $800++ on top of the fuel tax this year). A tax that is supposed to be used for road/safety improvements... (Yeah, right) Too much tax, enough already....

.

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  #64 (permalink)  
Old 12-03-2005, 09:16 PM
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Real Name: Elan
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Default Re: Hybrid Use Tax! On News Last Night.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leahbeatle
Whatever unfairness there is between the gas taxes paid by hybrids v. others is much less than the unfairness in the same tax on trucks v. passenger vehicles. The ratio someone provided for wear and tear was 3000 :1. I remember reading 200:1 in a Chicago Tribune article once, (to clarify- the damage to a road done by one truck driving on it is that of 200 cars on the same stretch) but even if it's somewhere vaguely in that range, the numbers just dwarf the difference between hybrids and other cars.


Let's say a loaded truck gets 10 mpg and a hybrid gets 50 mpg- that's a ratio of 5:1, so the tax would be reduced at that proportion, but that's nothing compared to 200 or 3000 times more wear and tear. Even 10:1 would barely register. So before the feds get around to instituting a hybrid tax, a more thoughtful voice will mention trucks, (nothing against trucks- they have their social utility, of course) and how many more trucks there are than hybrids. If the goal is, as you say, just to raise money and not to change people's behavior and consumption choices, then the hybrid tax idea won't get off the ground.
As was noted in the USCoC study, trucks already pay an additional use fee to make up for their additional wear and tear on the roads.

Overall, I really don't see a need to depart from the gas tax scheme. As of now, hybrids are perhaps 1% of the passenger vehicle fleet. If a hybrid consumes half as much gas as a comparable vehicle, then the whole hybrid fleet is saving 0.5% of the national gasoline consumption. Fine, then let them raise the fuel tax by 0.5% across the board and get it over with.

.

2006 HCH Alabaster Silver w/Navi
2003 Honda Accord LX
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  #65 (permalink)  
Old 12-03-2005, 10:49 PM
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Location: Orlando,FL
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Default Re: Hybrid Use Tax! On News Last Night.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElanC
Overall, I really don't see a need to depart from the gas tax scheme.
I don't either. Heavier vehicles pay more in gas tax by virtue of the fact that they get much worse MPG.
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  #66 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2005, 08:25 AM
Tim's Avatar
Tim Tim is offline
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Real Name: Paul
Location: Seattle, Washington
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Default Re: Hybrid Use Tax! On News Last Night.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElanC
Overall, I really don't see a need to depart from the gas tax scheme.
So long as it's across the board as you say. A selective tax against hybrids (or high-FE cars) is wrong for so many reasons I can't even list them. Ultimately, taxing gas will be a huge obstacle for extreme-high FE cars and ultimately EVs.

.


*** Retired after 65,000 outstanding miles ***
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  #67 (permalink)  
Old 12-06-2005, 09:04 AM
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Real Name: Ellie
Location: Cape Cod, MA
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Default Re: Hybrid Use Tax! On News Last Night.

I did read about this in the Boston Globe last weekend and as I drove around the next few days, I noticed that there were far, far more SUVs on the road than hybrids.

Are they out of their freakin' minds?!

But then I thought about what the real problem might be.
Here in Massachusetts, there is a never-ending highway project referred to as "the big dig". Billions of dollars have been spent on this project and it does not appear to have been spent wisely. Construction should have ended years ago, yet it goes on. There are tunnels that are springing leaks. People are getting paid for no apparent reason. It just appears to be a corrupt system.

So... is that the nature of the beast? Is the system inherently corrupt? Where does the money to fix the nation's roads go? Perhaps an investigation is what's needed here.

Or am I way off?
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  #68 (permalink)  
Old 01-06-2006, 07:39 AM
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Real Name: Michelle
Location: Chicago
Hybrids: 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid Galaxy Grey
Posts: 30
Default Re: Hybrid Use Tax! On News Last Night.

I think the passage of this kind of legislation will have a lot to do with how we respond to it - by calling/writing Congresspeople and Senators and strongly airing our views.

I was interested in the volume of replies to this post (thanks for posting this info and keeping people informed). If we use the same amount of energy to raise the issue to our Representatives, maybe we can light up the switchboards enough to influence the direction it takes.

There are many more "gas-guzzler" owners then Hybrid owners right now - we can be sure they will be lobbying hard to get what they want. We will have to raise our voices even louder to get what we want.

.



Driving HCH since 1/2/06, largely deep city driving. Finally filled up today, 1/19/06 for the first time ! Filled up at 4 bars, 350 miles.
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  #69 (permalink)  
Old 01-06-2006, 02:53 PM
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Real Name: Alden Bowles
Location: Frisco, Tx
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Posts: 253
Default Re: Hybrid Use Tax! On News Last Night.

Hear Hear Excel. I agree completely. I personally do not think there will be a federal "hybrid" tax. Each state can do want they want to though. Ahh, the beauty of a 50 member democratic republic with specific member rights.

.

Alden Bowles
2005 Toyota Prius II HSD

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  #70 (permalink)  
Old 01-07-2006, 04:53 PM
bar10dah's Avatar
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Real Name: Keith
Location: desert southwest
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Default Re: Thoreau - Civil Disobediance!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin_psx
It's discrimination & goes against the American value of treating all people equally.
??

I'm not sure if you're aware, but currently, all Americans are not taxed "equally." So, adding another (in this case - hybrid) tax isn't anything new.
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