hybrids are doomed! - GreenHybrid

bwilson4web · #1 (**permalink**) 06-11-2007, 06:01 AM

http://www.businessweek.com/print/gl...608_920568.htm

Quote:

by Ian Rowley
It has been a trying week for those who think hybrid-engine cars are destined to be a mass-market phenomenon. First, on June 5, Honda (HMC) confirmed that the next generation of its Accord sedan won't feature a hybrid option. The current Accord hybrid, which went on sale in 2004, has sold only 25,000 units and just 6,100 last year. "Americans didn't accept the Accord hybrid," a spokesman for Honda told reporters.

Hybrid market leader Toyota (TM) continues to dominate the field and recently announced that it has sold more than 1 million gas-electric cars since first introducing the Prius in Japan in 1997. However, Toyota earlier this year had to start offering sales incentives on the Prius for the first time ever, to boost sales of the second-generation model (see BusinessWeek.com, 3/19/07, "Why Hybrids Are Such A Hard Sell").

On top of that, Britain's advertising watchdog earlier this month ordered to Toyota to pull ads for its hybrids for the second time in two weeks, ruling that some of its environmental claims were misleading. Nissan faces no such problems, but that's because it only recently launched its first hybrid car, a version of the Altima sedan that uses Toyota technology, and is now trying to catch up with its Japanese rivals.
. . .

Ok everybody, the author has just written a short essay that proves our hybrids are doomed. Curious, he hasn't noticed the GM two-mode hybrids that are expected in the fall.

Bob Wilson

rmorrow · #2 (**permalink**) 06-11-2007, 06:41 AM

That's an interesting article, in that it seems to be all over the map. In the initial paragraph, the author appears to site the failure of the Accord hybrid as evidence that hybrids are destined to fail. Further in the article he says that the reason the Accord hybrid failed is because Honda focused on performance rather than fuel efficiency. To me that implies that those manufacturers that focus on fuel efficiency (such as Toyota) do in fact have a market worth pursuing.
I come away with the overall feeling that the author is trying to find arguments to suggest that the hybrid movement is in trouble, but then does a poor job of substantiating those same arguments, and appears to reverse himself in several places. As an essay, my high school English teacher would have failed it.

Delta Flyer · #3 (**permalink**) 06-11-2007, 08:09 AM

The head of IBM once said six(?) mainframes was all the world needed...

Tim K · #4 (**permalink**) 06-11-2007, 10:41 AM

I guess he missed the part that Toyota's hybrid sales are up, but their production is up as well. They didn't have to offer incentives previously as demand exceded supply....but now that they increased production, even the higher demand isn't keeping up.

AshenGrey · #5 (**permalink**) 06-12-2007, 04:21 AM

I'd say that "muscle car" hybrids probably ARE destined to fail. The Accord hybrid was a real bummer because gasoline went back up to $3 and Toyota launched the $26k Camry hybrid to compete against the $30k Accord hybrid.

bwilson4web · #6 (**permalink**) 06-12-2007, 06:02 AM

Hi,

Quote:

Originally Posted by AshenGrey

I'd say that "muscle car" hybrids probably ARE destined to fail. The Accord hybrid was a real bummer because gasoline went back up to $3 and Toyota launched the $26k Camry hybrid to compete against the $30k Accord hybrid.

As a hybrid quality index, I use:

motor_power / ICE_power

I have no problem with more electric power, even if for a fairly short distance. As the motor to ICE power ratio increases, the hybrid becomes more and more effective.

Ultimately, my data suggests that as the motor power and supporting battery bank is able to handle the peak power demands, the hybrid efficiency climbs rapidly with a corresponding drop in MPG. The end game is when the city/highway mileage matches the vehicle drag curve.

Bob Wilson

owlmaster08 · #7 (**permalink**) 06-12-2007, 07:23 PM

OH NO, my car has no future! Whatever shall I do? I know! I will hurry out to the nearest dealer and buy an SUV, that will make me fit in with the future better! It's kind of like how the author probably wrote the article to make himself feel better after a recent SUV purchase? hahaha...

Delta Flyer · #8 (**permalink**) 06-12-2007, 09:04 PM

Put that one down with last century's remark: "If man were meant to fly, he would have wings!"

stevejust · #9 (**permalink**) 06-12-2007, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AshenGrey

I'd say that "muscle car" hybrids probably ARE destined to fail. The Accord hybrid was a real bummer because gasoline went back up to $3 and Toyota launched the $26k Camry hybrid to compete against the $30k Accord hybrid.

I agree, but with the following caveat: had they sold the 255 hp accord as a sports car, i.e., a sporty two-door coupe with a 6-speed manual transmission, i would've bought one if the mt would've meant the possibility of high-30s mpg with hypermiling techniques.

The problem with the Accord was it was... stupid. In my opinion, there are a number, maybe plurality of environmentalists who wouldn't buy a car with a leather interior. But that's all it came with. I think most people who care about 255 hp don't care to have 4 doors. And the lack of a manual transmission option was... stupid. And I've said generally these same things on this board for the past 3 years. If Honda hired me 3 years ago, I would've made a hybird accord coupe that looked more like this (toned down a bit, but to not so much that it wouldn't appeal to Mustang and Corvette types), and I think they would've sold a fair deal of 'em:

fernando_g · #10 (**permalink**) 06-13-2007, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevejust

The problem with the Accord was it was... stupid.

I agree with you, when I purchased my `05 Civic Hybrid, I looked into the Accord as well. But it was an extremly mild hybrid, its MPG improvement ratio was not as impressive compared to the standard Accord.