Nissan is to develop its own hybrid system, and will stop licensing the HSD technology from Toyota.

Instead, they're going to release a new lithium-ion based plug-in hybrid by 2010.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006...an_t.html#more

I guess they've had a couple LiIon EVs on the public roads already, so plenty experience with these. Perhaps they now have the confidence that the market will be there to make them PHEV. But will they be first? Mitsubishi say 2009!

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/ecotech/ecot.htm

I'm somewhat amused to read that Nissan is dropping HSD for a vehicle that has yet to be sold in the States. Perhaps they plan to use the GM system in the future?

Bob Wilson

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Nissan has nothing to lose by ditching (dissing) HSD. (1) They make their system look superior to HSD, even though they have vapor right now, (2) Their future is not tied to a competitor's good grace. There already been several companies ditching HSD to develop "their" own, including GM, BMW, etc.. Except they are still spinning the marketing wheel, hoping that hybrid is a fad.

Others may have a workable hybrid drivetrain soon, perhaps a better one. But since Toyota has already built up the scale/capacity, they would be the only one who can produce enough to sell economically.

I think the Hybrid game is over (Toyota already won the war). Diesel or fuel cell will be the new battleground.

Vapor is right!

A press release war, I'll pass, in my hybrid.

Bob Wilson

Operation Iraqi Oil Freedom:

Automatic, stock, project car.

My other 1500 cc car:

Automatic, stock, backup car.
Free speech, dialog and knowledge thrives without the poison of SPAM.

How is it over exactly? Hardly any hybrids are on the road yet. Do you mean that hybrid is just going to be standard and no one will care about them (just take it for granted). That's still at least half a decade off, in my opinion.

What you're saying is akin to saying Ford "won" the car war back in the early 1900s with the Model T. That wasn't the end of the war, it was just the beginning. As for diesel, I don't see why that won't end up being combined with hybrids eventually. Right now everyone treats them separately, but theoretically a diesel hybrid should do better than either a standard diesel or a gasoline hybrid.

As far as I'm concerned a PHEV is a lot more impressive than a pipe dream like a hydrogen car (which currently has no infrastructure in place, let alone any industry built up to provide it).

Nissan CEO Carlos Ghosn has maintained that hybrids are “a terrible business prospect” and has viewed hybrids as a solution for niche markets such as California.

I wish I could get paid so much to be so wrong.

Nogorak, agree with you the Plug-in hybrids are the most practical, realistic technology for the immediate 10 years. And Fuel Cell is not feasible because most gas stations can't afford the distribution (they can't even afford a $5K nitrogen generator to fill tires with nitrogen!). I still think every company will have hybrid models in due time, just to be sure they are "with it".

But the reason why I think the hybrid war is over is because a Toyota and Honda already owns the patents to a lot of practical hybrid designs/ideas/concepts. So any new designs/concepts/products will need to play nice with Toyota/Honda's lawyers. I am not saying there is no more hybrids coming, I just believe that Toyota/Honda will probably be the "benevolent" dictators on the future of hybrids. Oh I really hope that does not happen.

Diesel is not a complete solution, because it puts us back to over-relying on fossil fuel again, not to mention potential environmental impacts. But I think non hybrid companies are just so desperate that they will say anything to to diss hybrids for the time being. And press are likely to follow, because they still get plenty of sponsorship money from carmakers.

Maybe diesel/plug-in hybrids will be the answer.

Thanks for responding. I guess I understand more where you are coming from now. You may have a point. I don't know what will happen. I guess it depends on how hard it is to design around Toyota and Honda's patents. Maybe making a diesel hybrid or PHEV would be different enough to not violate their patents? I long for the day of the diesel PHEV, as I think it might be the only practical fossil fuel vehicle in the long run. It seems to me that such vehicles are years off, and I'm afraid we may be moving too slow, so that by the time they finally arrive things will already be a mess. I guess we shall see.

A diesel plug-in sure will be nice, imagine a vehicle with real torque and maybe 80+mpg, for even mid-size trucks, SUV's and minivans.

I think technology is there, but car company CEO's don't want to make billion $$ investment until they absolutely have to. I think the only reason Toyota dare to do this in the 90's (for hybrid), is because the chairman/CEO is a Toyota grandson, so he needn't fear losing his job if things go bad. William Ford (of Ford Motors) really had a chance to do something without too much fear, and starting a hybrid SUV (Escape) was the right choice. But Ford put nothing in improving or marketing them, so too little, and maybe too late.

As much as I hope American car companies can lead the next wave of revolution, I think Japanese (especially Toyota) will win again, because they have so much experience doing business where conditions (for fuel, pollutions, maintenance, roads, etc.) suck. Notice most news from Mideast, Africa and south America, you see only Toyota trucks (Tacoma) and Corollas running around on crappy roads, on cheapy (and direty) gas, diesel, ethanol, natural gas or whatever. You never see a GM, Ford, Benz, Honda, VW, BWM or Chrysler in these less than perfect places (except maybe an old VW bug). So how are they going to design a car for a less than perfect world?

The only tidbit of real news here to me is, Nissan is going to sell 100,000 cars based on Toyota's Hybrid Synergy Drive. Bravo Nissan!

The rest is a lot of obvious stuff like - when (if) they have their own transmission, they won't use Toyota's... and I love this: "Toyota said it would not provide its hybrid systems to Nissan for other models than the Altima unless Nissan requested it to do so."

...Really?? This reminds me of a quote Madden whipped out in a Superbowl a few years ago:

"When you get tackled, you may go down. Or, you may not."

Prius 2006, bought September 14: