http://www.slate.com/id/2186786/

This is an excellent summary refuting the CNW Marketing nonsense and well worth keeping as a handy reference. Although, gas at over $3/gal. speaks another argument even more grinding than any other.

Bob Wilson

Operation Iraqi Oil Freedom:

Automatic, stock, project car.

My other 1500 cc car:

Automatic, stock, backup car.
Free speech, dialog and knowledge thrives without the poison of SPAM.

Refreshing, thanks for the post.

I did sent them a short email pointing out that the HSD R&D costs had a somewhat larger amortization base with 50-60 thousand TCHs a year and another 18-20 HiHys, not to mention things to come with the rising fuel prices.

It is the ignorant among us that will eventually destroy us all.

Nice. Thanks, Bob.

Steve

STOP terrorism - Drive a HYBRID

Vehicles:
350 miles a week ------------ 2006 HCH II, Magnetic Pearl, w/NAVI (born on May 25, 2006)
350 miles a month ---------- 2003 Mazda Tribute ES-V6
350 miles a year (for now) - 1986 Mercedes 560SL

Finally, someplace I can point to when people start talking about this.

I know that a lot of others have 'debunked this myth,' but having it on slate makes it more believable for people than if I point them to something called 'hybrid cars xxx'. People automatically assume that sort of site would be biased.

Hybrid Review

I think it would be interesting for someone to repeat the CNW analysis with realistic numbers for development and manufacturing costs, fleet size, vehicle lifetime, and end-of-life costs. The last one might of course be a negative number.

DAS

Hi folks,

Apparently, the Slate article touched a nerve as "CNW Marketing" has posted two, different replies at the CNW web site. The quality of these replies matches the earlier "Dust to Dust" report including the habit of cherry picking facts and ignore others from the same sources (aka., EPA for both Prius and their favorite Corolla.) But there are some curious new quotes:

• "Prius tires last approximately one quarter of the miles of those on a Toyota Corolla."
• "In this case, the Prius is a complex vehicle that is inferior to a Jetta Diesel, for example, in any measurement of life-cycle energy efficiency."
• ". . . Hybrids may be a good profit center for automakers, . . ., but they continue to be less energy efficient over their lifetime than the industry average or some significantly larger vehicles. And diesels make both hybrid and gas powered vehicles look positively wasteful."

Tires are an interesting point since I've recently been looking at tire rolling resistance. There is a report that low rolling resistance tires, according to some Bridgestone charts, don't last as long. Curiously, I've never had new car tires reach their claimed miles. Like new car batteries, they always seem to last one year beyond the warranty.

The diesel comments are curious because a pair of European "researchers" have made similar claims. Yet the most exciting hybrid is a Golf TDI hybrid using the dual-clutch transmission. But I suspect something else is causing CNW to become a little more defensive.

Every day, more drivers refuel and face the facts and data at the pump. No degree of sophistry and semantics works as well as gas and diesel prices:

• $3.28 - USA gas prices 3/17/08
• $3.98 - USA diesel prices 3/17/08

I remain a little amused that this note about CNW Marketing may remain the only notice of their latest posting.

Bob Wilson

Operation Iraqi Oil Freedom:

Automatic, stock, project car.

My other 1500 cc car:

Automatic, stock, backup car.
Free speech, dialog and knowledge thrives without the poison of SPAM.

Very cool find. Basically just states what we know as a complete bogus report.

Besides anybody who takes a scientific report from a marketing company in a serious light should have their head examined.