True. Hybrid ownership is only a small contributor to lowering your overall CO2 footprint. The biggest contributors are what you eat and what you buy.

As I understand things, the Prius is made from less parts than an equivalent sized vehicle (HSD is quite simple really). So could use similar or even less energy in production?

I guess the issue is how much energy goes into making the parts that are different from a normal car - battery, inverters etc. Silicon is energy intesive, but then so is aluminium and downsizing an engine surely has to save a lot of aluminium though...

But then, the CO2 required to support all the researchers that developed the Prius may need to be added on.... help... it's all getting too complicated!

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/ecotech/ecot.htm

Worthywads.Maybe KBB has some use, but I haven't found it. I just checked it for private sale for a PK 1 Prius with 3000 miles on it-a 2005 since it doesn't have 2006 yet.I wanted to equip it like my PK 4 2006, but KBB didn't have 2006's yet, and didn't have that equipment.
Well KBB said private sale for an excellent 2005 with side airbags -3000 miles- was $25,600(>$2000 over MSRP). I just bought my 2006 PK 4 for $23750-8 weeks ago..It is worse than BS, but BS is the most polite phrase I could come up with.All the dealers around here will eventually come down to very close to MSRP, or just below for a Prius.
Why would anyone pay waaaaay over new price and give up the tax credit?They wouldn't! Now KBB used my ZIP, so it is supposed to be a local price, so there isn't any CA HOV lane clouding the issue.
Not wanting to pick a fight, but KBB is only useful if you are selling your vehicle to an inexperienced buyer("born every minute").Luck.Charlie
PS-Lots of folks want to believe they can sell their vehicle for more than they paid for it.It is 1/1,000,000 when that happens.

All right, let's keep this on topic. KBB and equivalencies can be discussed in their own thread.

First 4WD Hypermiler

Have you read the FEH FAQ?

Live in Michigan? Let it be known in Michigan Roll Call

Read My Automotive Blog at Rich Rambles

KBB is generally not a good source for assessing the value of a USED Toyota no matter the model. It is often far lower than the real value, often thousands lower. Edmunds is more accurate generally on the ACV/Trade-in values.

The data on the new vehicle pricing is accurate because it is supplied to KBB, Edumnds, etc by Toyota itself.

Regarding the market prices for a new vehicle, it's a much grayer area. I find both KBB and Edmunds to err in both extremes, both too low and too high, depending on the model of course.

OK. Here is some more info:

"The UK Sustainable Development Commission report in 2006 gave a figure of 16 g/kWh for nuclear, compared with 891 g/kWh for coal and 356 g/kWh for gas."

FYI, 1 pound = 453.6 grams

I'm going with the Honda provided number of $2500.

For a baseline, $2500 buys 833 gallons of gas. Each gallon burned adds 19.6 pounds of CO2 to the atmosphere. Therefore, burning $2500 of gas adds 16,327 pounds of CO2 to the atmosphere.

Electricity from coal ($0.08Kwh): $2500/$.08*891g/453.6 = 61,384 pounds of CO2
Electricity from gas ($0.08Kwh): $2500/$.08*356g/453.6 = 24,526 pounds of CO2

In terms of CO2 emissions, the $2500 Honda spent is worse than burning $2500 of gas.... which means you probably aren't even close to offseting the difference once you reach your financial breakeven point.

Did Honda say that the hybrid car cost them $2500 more in electricity to produce than the non-hybrid?

I don't think so.

Again, you are making assumptions.

Yes, I am assuming that (much) greater than 50% of the additional cost is energy costs. Even the price of most raw materials is really based upon the energy to extract, transport, and even build the equipment that does that work.

With the exception of nuclear, geothermal, wind, or hydroelectric, that energy usage involves a lot of CO2 emissions.

Last warning, back on topic or this gets closed.

First 4WD Hypermiler

Have you read the FEH FAQ?

Live in Michigan? Let it be known in Michigan Roll Call

Read My Automotive Blog at Rich Rambles

Well, there were a lot of points introduced in the original post, and the discussion flows from there. That's kinda how discussion boards work.

Maybe you can help me understand what would be on-topic in this thread besides the usual cheerleading and complaining.

Isn't the topic what is right or wrong about the Hart/Reason/CNW pieces on the benefits or lack there of hybrids. All I see here is discussions of different aspects of those pieces, which include purchase price differences and dust-to-dust analyses that discuss energy use to produce?

Please define the topic, I'm confused?

I see CaptainObvious beat me to the punch.